Re: Stupid NAT tricks and how to stop them.

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On 03/28/06 at 9:00pm +0200, Anthony G. Atkielski <anthony@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Scott Leibrand writes:
>
> > Um, have you heard of dual stack?  My Windows XP does it quite
> > transparently (after I enable IPv6 at the command line), and presumably
> > Vista will do IPv4/IPv6 dual stack transparently without any command-line
> > enabling.
>
> How does your ISP handle this?

They could do so (when they implement IPv6) by running dual-stack routers.

> How much extra does your ISP charge you for IPv6 support?

My ISP doesn't yet provide IPv6 support.  But at some point they (or
another ISP) will.

> > As I argued in another message, IMO ISPs will not be able to charge extra
> > for an IPv6 /64.
>
> A /64 is a criminal waste of address space; they _should_ charge extra
> for that.

I don't think you understand exponential math as it applies to IPv6.
IPv6 was specifically designed to make this possible.  With /48
assignments and an HD ratio of .94, projections indicate a ~500 year
lifetime to exhaust the IPv6 address space.

> > That gives you basically as many hosts as your
> > routing/switching gear can handle on a single subnet (as you won't be able
> > to put 2^64 hosts on a single broadcast domain).
>
> And even with a million hosts, you'll be wasting fully
> 99.9999999999945% of the /64.

Yep.  And since there are about 18,446,744,073,709,600,000 /64's, such
wastage is not a problem.  IPv6 was *designed* to make sure that address
space conservation is *not* required.

> Do you see why IPv6 address space will soon be exhausted?

If you consider hundreds of years "soon", then sure.

> > As long as you already have v6-capable gear, enabling IPv6 shouldn't be
> > significantly more expensive than running v4.  IMO it doesn't make sense
> > to try to run v6 on gear that only supports v4, but since pretty much all
> > new gear supports v6 now, folks should be able to gradually turn on v6 as
> > appropriate in their networks.
>
> When did all applications become capable of handling IPv6?

They don't need to be.  For the life of any existing applications, IPv4
connectivity will still be available in some fashion.

> > All the ones I've seen charge a small premium for additional IP space,
> > but it's never more than about a 50% premium.
>
> Fifty percent is a small premium?

No, usually it's a lot less than 50%.  More typical is like $5/mo extra
for additional IP(s).

-Scott

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