>>>>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:23:45 +0000, Dave Cridland <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxx> said: Dave> On Sun Mar 19 09:46:30 2006, Mohsen BANAN wrote: >> For example, the negative IESG note in the >> original HTTP specs and the success of HTTP >> demonstrated IESG's attitude and its eventual >> relevance. Dave> For the crowd watching who were curious, but not curious enough to Dave> bother looking, RFC1945 (HTTP/1.0), which of course is NOT the Dave> original HTTP spec at all, carries the note: Dave> The IESG has concerns about this protocol, and expects this document Dave> to be replaced relatively soon by a standards track document. Dave> RFC2068, HTTP/1.1, was published a little over half a year later, Dave> which would appear to be "relatively soon". The primary author of Informational RFC1945 with the negative IESG note is Tim Berners-Lee. He then pulled out of the IETF/IESG and formed W3C. Why do you think that happened? And where is IETF/IESG with W3C now? In my opinion what started with the Informational RFC1945 is the most significant advancement since formation of IETF/IESG/IAB/... Almost always innovation comes from outside of committees. Dave> But back to your argument, which appears to be that if the RFC editor Dave> function were utterly independent from the IAB/IETF/IESG, your Dave> protocols would have been published without those notes, and without Dave> the review those notes required. Which part is the problem, the Dave> review, or the note attached to the document? None of those. My concern is not my own RFCs. I got them published despite of the IETF/IESG opposition. The IESG note is a badge of honor similar to Tim Berners-Lee's. The perspective that the world needs the IESG note to be able to judge the merits of a protocol is at best comical. The scope and purpose of the IESG note should be limited to relevance and overlap with current or planned IETF work. An independent RFC Editor should enforce this and put the IESG in its place. That is what the then BCP -- RFC-2026 -- said. Of course, things work differently in a cult. I suspect that lots of direct independent RFC submissions are being censored by the IESG. The community is being fragmented. And the trend appears to be for the situation to only be getting worse. Again, all of this is in the context of: STRAW PROPOSAL RFC Editor charter where the key topics are: - Independence of RFC Publication Service - Relationship of IETF/IESG/IAB with the RFC Publication Service - Use of the RFC Publication Service by the Internet Community Tony gets it: >>>>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:28:17 -0800, "Tony Hain" <alh-ietf@xxxxxxxx> said: Tony> The point is that the past IESG practice which has driven out those who Tony> would submit individual submissions, resulting in the current ratios, MUST Tony> NOT become the guide for what SHOULD happen going forward. The RFC editor Tony> role needs to be extricated from the overbearing IESG and returned to its Tony> independent role. Doing otherwise further fragments the community which will Tony> only lead to its downfall. >From my perspective, based on past performance, the IETF/IESG/IAB can not be trusted to control the RFC Publication Service. ...Mohsen _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf