Kaliya,
I agree with most of what you say. Just one comment in line...
On 30-Jul-23 15:29, Kaliya Identity Woman wrote:
Intimating that people who can't find low-cost hotels near the venue are not capable of "adulting" doesn't help.
The point of requesting identifying low cost options and making those explicit sends a signal to would-be attendees
1) that the community/organization has thought about those who are not on corporate travel budgets
2) It has checked out the hotel (on a site visit) and it is "ok" and not a bad place to stay. (this can be very hard discern on the internet ). <-- so maybe this can be added as something that the staff who do scouting look for on visits.
Site visits are usually a long time in advance, and the budget hotel/hostel environment seems to change quite fast in most cities. So I think these options can be firmly identified only months, not a couple of years, before the meeting. That makes it a local host job. During the site visit, the question needs to be: do such options exist within a short distance?
RFC 8718 (BCP 226) says in section 3.2.4. "Hotel Needs":
"The Facility environs include budget hotels within convenient travel time, cost, and effort."
Perhaps it should have said "hotels or hostels", but apart from that, this is already a site-selection criterion. It was added after a few bad experiences in the past. Maybe there is a need for bringing this issue more to the front in the "Upcoming Meetings" info and at https://www.ietf.org/about/participate/get-started/#participatinginmeetings. There's a paragraph that perhaps needs updating:
"After participating by email for a while, it may be time to attend your first meeting. Details are linked off the IETF home page as soon as they are available. This isn't free. There are meeting registration fees and for meetings with in-person participation, there are travel and hotel costs."
That could usefully mention possible fee waivers and the budget hotel/hostel question.
Brian
3) there might be a critical mass of other budget oriented attendees at the same venue and then folks can navigate to the main venue together or from social events etc. So that you aren't just "staying all by yourself".
I know that when I have attended international events and the ONLY option pointed at/suggested is a $300+ a night hotel - it says "this event is for people who have the kinda money - as in 2-3k a week for lodging". This is about signaling as much as it is about practicalities.
- Kaliya
On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 3:01 PM Chris Morrow <morrowc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:morrowc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jul 2023 17:27:36 +0000,
Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:bob.hinden@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
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> >> I also know many people who’s IETF participation and work is self funded and are not part of big corporations And are major contributors.
> >
> > And I think there's never been an IETF in recent memory where there weren't budget hotels nearby. If the local host can also arrange nearby student-hostel style rooms, that's a good idea, of course.
>
>
> For example, right around the corner from the Hilton is the HI San Francisco Downtown Hostel.
>
> https://www.hiusa.org/find-hostels/california/san-francisco-312-mason-street <https://www.hiusa.org/find-hostels/california/san-francisco-312-mason-street>
>
> Has both shared and private rooms.
>
I don't mean to point back to 'days of yore' attendees lists, but
.. for several meetings in a row I posted links to:
yahoo-maps
bing-maps
google-maps
search result for hotel stays at/around the venue, all of which were
invariably 50% of the hotel rate. It takes 'as much effort' to book
the conference venue as it does to book literally any other place in
the 3-6 block distance.
Pointing to specific places has no impact on folks who can clearly NOT
adult and find a hotel on any mapping application on the internet.
Perhaps that was Bob's point here though?
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