Re: Email account utilization warning.

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I wonder how hard it would be to set my mail server to drop your mail
too?  Since, obviously, "Email account utilization warning" has nothing
to do with your rants. . . 

-Dave

On Wednesday, 07 Jul 2004, Dean Anderson wrote:
> Mark, 
> 
> To fool people, the "phish" has to be plausible.  In this case, people
> have come to expect capricious behavior from the IETF and so the
> "phishing" claim of turning off email capriciously isn't out of the realm
> of the expected behavior.  People saw the IETF do it before, and expect it
> might might happen again.
> 
> "Dean Anderson" is not the topic: The IETF principles are the topic;  The
> IETF rules are the topic; The misbehavior by people including the IETF
> leadership is the topic.  Those who don't want to address the problems try
> to portray this as about Dean Anderson, or about Dan Bernstein, or about
> whoever else is being abused at the moment.  It's not about Dean Anderson;
> It's not about Dan Bernstein; Its not those other innocent people defamed
> and disparaged by a select few abusers.  Its about abusive behavior by a
> select group, and the willfull, repeated, and perfidious failure of the
> leadership to address the abuse, and the participation by the leadership
> in the abuse.
> 
> It should not be too much to ask that the IETF Leadership follow the IETF
> rules and the IETF principles.  Is that too much to ask?  When the
> leadership acts capriciously, frivolously, perfidiously and acts contrary
> to the rules and principles of the IETF, this behavior is observed by
> others.  These things don't happen in a vacuum.  The complaints of Dean
> Anderson, or Dan Bernstein, or of anyone else do not bring dishonor to the
> IETF. Only the behavior by the leadership brings disrespect and dishonor
> to the IETF.  And we see the effects of that: People come to expect
> capricious behavior from the IETF and so the "phishing" premise isn't out
> of the realm of the expected behavior.  People saw the IETF do it before,
> and expect it might might happen again.  Solve the problem: Obey the IETF
> principles and rules. Then such "phishes" will be out of character, and 
> people would be more suspicious of such a "phish".
> 
> 
> As I said offlist to Mark Smith:
> 
>   From: Dean Anderson <dean@xxxxxxx>
>   To: Mark Smith <ietf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>   Subject: Re: Email account utilization warning.
> 
>   Because I have respect for the IETF, and its principles. It is the IETF
>   leadership that is disgraceful.
> 
>   But it has been the desire of the leadership to run the IETF like a
>   private club, and many people would be (and have been) driven off by 
>   their behavior. Someone, sometime has to stand up to them.
> 
>                 --Dean
> 
>   On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Mark Smith wrote:
> 
>   > If you have such low respect for the IETF, why don't you just remove
>   > yourself from all associated IETF mailing lists, and stop
>   > "contributing" too them?
> 
> 
> On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Mark Durham wrote:
> 
> > Could we try to keep our narcissistic eye on the ball here?
> > 
> > I realize that the only thing on this list that matters to you is you, 
> > and normally I do what I imagine most of the list is doing: I suffer 
> > your rants in silence. But recognizing this stuff is actually important, 
> > and if there are people on the IETF list who don't, that's a situation 
> > that cries out for attention. Please, for once, let's assume that you 
> > are *not* the topic, and stay on whatever the topic actually is. You can 
> > trot out your personal demons (or daemons, for that matter) under some 
> > other subject line ... and, by all evidence, you certainly will. In the 
> > meantime, let's not treat every message on this list as your personal 
> > song cue.
> > 
> > Is this really too much to ask?
> > 
> 
> 
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> 

-- 
David Frascone

                   Hindsight is always 20/20.

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