On 6/9/22 12:41, Keith Moore wrote:
It's not that people can never be rude (they can), or that rudeness is a good thing (it's not). But much of what people call rudeness is subjective and arbitrary. If people can be shut down for rudeness, that inherently stifles a robust dialog aimed at discovering technical truth.The counterpoint to that is "If people are not shut down for rudeness, that inherently stifles an open dialog …"
Except that that's not true, or even defensible. If anything it's the opposite of the truth.
I thought a slight clarification might be useful, because some
people are probably thinking "how can Keith be in denial that
rudeness can shut down dialog?"
There's an important difference between observing that rudeness
can harm a productive dialog (which I agree with), and concluding
that "rude" individuals must be sanctioned or otherwise
discouraged (which I disagree with, at least without a much more
precise definition of what constitutes inappropriate behavior than
"rude").
It's not only that "rude" is inherently vague and subjective.
It's also that there are already too many people in IETF who think
that they are fit to decide when someone else has crossed
the line, that their own (likely unexamined) notion of what's
appropriate should dictate others' behavior. Those people should
be discouraged rather than encouraged.
I've also seen too many instances in which "rude" individuals
were deemed "rude" (or worse) because they told inconvenient
truths, or because their technical agenda threatened someone
else's technical agenda.
Sometimes IETF discussions desperately need a dose of truth, but people are afraid to speak up for fear of being labeled as "rude" or worse. I have lost count of the number of times that I've spoken up about something uncomfortable, and received significant amounts of private mail thanking me for doing so.
Candor is essential for IETF to do its job well, and it needs to
be encouraged. Discouraging "rude" behavior has the opposite
effect.
Tolerance is a necessary condition for IETF to function. The
trick is to draw a better line between "conventional" and "rude".
Keith
