Thanks, Jay,
Interesting thought, and of course there is always his bias risk, but
its not where i was coming from in the meetings example:
When i joined the manycouches discussion some years back, i was always of the
opinion to not cut down on the in-person meetings, but instead simply make
hybrid participation better for remote participants through better tooling.
Simply because i enjoy in-person meetings, think they are more productive
and had no problems with travel, but am a tele-collaboration tooling geek.
So when i said "think/act outside the box" i was specifically referring to
changes in the IETF which i do not necessarily have to like upfront, such as going fully
virtual, solely from the perspective that at least experimentation should be
valuable for our community. And i also like "learning by doing".
And btw. there is IETF leadership that i have experienced to "act outside the box",
and i am very gratious for that, especially when i learned the resistance
against it.
Cheers
Toerless
On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 08:00:48AM +1300, Jay Daley wrote:
> In my experience, criticism of others for "not thinking/acting outside of the box" is often shorthand for "thinking/acting that doesn’t agree with mine" rather than any indicator of a systemic problem. I think it fairer to assume that others have done just as much thinking as me, but come to a different conclusion.
>
> Jay
>
> > On 14/10/2021, at 4:49 AM, Toerless Eckert <tte@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, Stephen. I guess i was referring to
> > "act outside the box" and not only "think outside the box".
> > And i do think it may be easier to do that when you actually
> > do come from outside the box.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Toerless
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 04:27:59PM +0100, Stephen Farrell wrote:
> >>
> >> On 13/10/2021 15:54, Toerless Eckert wrote:
> >>> manycouches had many couch potatoes arguing for many many years to
> >>> have at least one virtual-only IETF per year, even if just as an
> >>> experiment. I do not remember a single AD thinking outside of a box
> >>> to push for such an experiment.
> >>
> >> I don't think that's accurate. It's fair to say that
> >> we didn't make real progress on attempting to only
> >> meet twice in any year before covid, but there were
> >> a bunch of ADs among those considering the issues,
> >> (incl. me back then.) Just because the IESG doesn't
> >> manage to succeed in figuring stuff out does not mean
> >> that the IESG didn't try so I'd cut the current leadership
> >> some slack before accusing them of being unable to
> >> think outside whatever boxes are perceived to exist.
> >>
> >> S.
> >
>
> --
> Jay Daley
> IETF Executive Director
> exec-director@xxxxxxxx
--
---
tte@xxxxxxxxx
