On 16/04/2021 22:14, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
On 17-Apr-21 05:43, Ole Jacobsen wrote:
...
I think this discussion has assumed that all newcomers are
necessarily looking to get directly involved with a working group
from Day One and therefore need to do a lot of homework and
preparation. I know we keep telling the world that the IETF is "not
a conference" and that "people come here to work," but I see no harm
in simply exploring what the IETF is all about and then perhaps
getting involved in a particular effort after some time, after
having attended a few meetings, and most of all after having made
friends and even discovered who to avoid! :-)
All the same, my experience from both mentoring and newcomers'
meet-and-greet is that most people first come because of a specific
topic, which often (but not always) corresponds to a single WG.
Presumably Jay could update one of his surveys to ask newcomers about
that.
That matches the known fact that only a small fraction of participants
are on even the ietf-announce list (and even fewer on this list).
Somebody could also do a cluster analysis of WG list subscribers -
with about 120 WGs, how many separate populations do we have?
...
yes, please, some data, as opposed to opinons, feelings and such like.
Who can do it?IAD?
Tom Petch
If newcomers risk being "snarled at" it is only due to our own
culture and abusive behavior and not due to their lack of preparation.
On 17-Apr-21 06:43, Randy Presuhn wrote:
...
The common post-meeting reaction was "you
should have warned me - it was so much more awful than you described."
It was only because our business depended on it that I was able to
get them to go to any subsequent meetings, but it also led me to
conclude that IETF meetings can be painful experiences for anyone
with a shred of empathy.
I may have said this before, but when I first attended an IETF meeting
it didn't surprise me, because I was used to attending meetings of
physicists. You need to be thick-skinned for that too. Has the IETF got
more brutal over the years? I don't think so. That doesn't mean it's OK,
but let's be clear that this is a long-standing problem.
Do people think the snarling is less of an issue in on-line meetings?
Brian
.
