Dalibor Topic wrote:
>On Wed, 2006-03-08 at 23:30 +0100, Philippe Laporte wrote:
>
>
>>Hej,
>> Well, see that's my outsider take. In my view people should join
>>efforts independently of egos. Perhaps I am too idealistic...
>>
>>
>>
>
>I am sure if you spend some time researching on the Internet you will
>find out that many of us are actually sharing code, experiences and
>helping promote free runtimes regardless of which project they are
>associated with.
>
>
I am sorry that my purpose is not clear yet. It will be soon enough.
Then you will surely understand why
I don't have the time to go around and check old information and then
ask if it's current.
>I've been mentioning and recommending SableVM alongside with JikesRVM,
>JamVM, IKVM, gcj, Cacao and various other free runtimes in invited
>presentations and talks ever since I got involved with the free runtimes
>in 2002, no matter if I was invited to speak about my pet project or
>not. When Kevin, doing the SableVM talk at FISL 2005, couldn't come, I
>helped out, and praised the state-of-the-artness of it to the audience,
>and the brilliance of its authors, and so on, and so on. I'd do it
>again, too, any time. It's good code, and I have lots of respect for
>their work.
>
>So please spare me the crap talk about egos, since we are doing all that
>quite successfully. The folks with the big egos ("bring me the Stallman
>or an FSF lawyer's head!") are not in this project. If your pet project
>doesn't get the attention you think it deserves, try writing some code
>instead of clogging the list with fanboyism.
>
>
Do I really need to answer this? I think a lot of people appreciate my
interventions.
I don't know what fanboyism is (and I don't care to look), but this is
the deal: the biggest device manufacturer in the world will be putting
free Java on their device, and some coordination is needed to beat the
proprietary Java (which Nokia will use if the free Java community does
not pull it together).
Now, where are you guys coordinating a free embedded Java strategy?
>
>
>>I am trying to provoke some kind of debate and hopefully resolution of
>>open issues...
>>
>>
>
>There are no open issues.
>
>
!
>SableVM choses to use GNU Classpath, which is cool. They chose not to
>contribute to its development atm, which is cool, too, since they have
>shown to be very, very hard to work together with in a professional way,
>without turning discussions on their head with exactly this sort of
>arrogant posturing that you've managed to do as well. Congratulations.
>
>
I'm sorry for being so obscure.
The Sable guys are very willing to ditch their classpath tweaks and
depend on the real distro. They just don't see it as a priority. Neither
would I.
>If you absolutely need to debate some funny bit of SableVM's history,
>worldview, or legal theories, please do it on the appropriate lists, or
>in private. The appropriate list for dissing other GNU Classpath
>runtimes (and crapping onto projects who write the code your pet project
>crucially depends on) is not this one, do it where other people don't
>have to endure such rudeness.
>
>
>
Rudeness is purely cultural. Try living in Finland. I was there for
almost two years (hint hint).
>>I think competition does diservice to the community...
>>
>>
>
>As the history shows, you are clearly wrong.
>
>The free runtime community has profited immensely from not focusing on a
>single VM, but instead nicely routing around the eventually less
>successful projects by letting a thousand flowers bloom, and helping
>people help themselves to better software they way they want and need it
>under the licenses they like. That's why you can chose a pet project to
>be a fan of, among several alternatives.
>
>Chose one, contribute to it, but please keep your stop energy away from
>people who do real work.
>
>
How do you defend people wasting their energy on Kaffe, while there is
not a bit of anything in it that is unique.
Kaffe WAS great. I say pick it apart, plug its bits here and there, and
let's all focus on something else.
Don't try to tell me you love kaffe more than I do, BTW.
There isn't a thousand ways to do a VM. What we need is free VM that is
better than any non-free. How are we doing on this one?
