On Thu, 2005-04-21 at 09:35, Michael McCabe wrote: > Have you tried submitting Lilo to Extras? Ok, I can accept that grub replacing lilo in FC makes sense at this point in history but please lets not say silly things like this, ok? (Seen it several times during this flameathon, not just picking on you.) Having Lilo is Extras would be even less useful than the proverbial tits on a bull. There is no reason to remove lilo as such since it is small, reliable and hasn't required updating in years, the reason I have seen for removing it is to eliminate the need to continue supporting two bootloaders in other related packages such as anaconda, grubby, install-new-kernel, up2date, etc. So if that feature removal happens you can't have it in Extras and if it doesn't it should have stayed in Core in first place And even that ignores the main issue that Extras isn't exactly going to be available at the time a boot loader is being installed, unlike the arguments over whether gnumeric or pan stays in core or moves to Extras where having to download after installation matters much less. Lilo either stays in Core or it goes entirely, there isn't a compromise position possible. Once it goes restoring it would require a fork of the Fedora codebase, respins of the installation media, a new set of mirrors to distribute said media from, etc. Which is probably why the flames have been raging higher than if it were just your typical flamewar thread that would have followed Godwin's Law and devolved to one side comparing the other to Hitler long before now. :) Still hoping "dual boot and raid never happens outside the lab so grub not supporting it isn't a problem" isn't the final official position though. After all FC isn't intended as a production OS so aren't test boxes & developer workstations the places where you would EXPECT to find Fedora? I'm moving toward having everything important on RAID but I still have a single drive for / and boot because of attitudes like this that result in continual reliability problems with RAID in the early phases of system startup. Perhaps since LVM presents many of the same bootstrapping issues, and isn't treated like a red headed stepchild like software RAID, these problems will get solved eventually. -- John M. http://www.beau.org/~jmorris This post is 100% M$Free! Geekcode 3.1:GCS C+++ UL++++$ P++ L+++ W++ w--- Y++ b++ 5+++ R tv- e* r