Dne 28. 01. 21 v 19:36 Simo Sorce napsal(a):
On Thu, 2021-01-28 at 19:26 +0100, Vít Ondruch wrote:Dne 28. 01. 21 v 15:51 Robbie Harwood napsal(a):Vít Ondruch <vondruch@xxxxxxxxxx> writes:Thx everybody for their responses and sorry for such controversial topic. I am not going to propose this upstream after all. However I have few takeaways: 1) I see responses of Fedora long timers and I understand that you have polished workflows. But I really think that for newcomers, mock should be the preferred way. I'd love to see documentation adjusted to prefer mock everywhere. 2) I would really love you to stop using VMs for your build/testing. With exception of Kernel and Kernel related issues, the argument of "mock being slow" can't stand. Every VM will be more resources hungry then mock, slowing every your task. 3) The argument of mock being slow can't stand, because in one of my examples I posted elsewhere in this thread, I picked up the simplest package I could and the build took 7 seconds. This is certainly not slow, in this time you can't even switch to your email client to check your emails.So far on this thread, you've asked feedback on a proposal, and then when provided with feedback you didn't like, repeatedly argued with our comments and told us we're wrong. This is not a good way to engage with feedback.I have provided the numbers here: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/message/4RSZSVMHLIGEYIHLC6NOH3BEWWFQ7JQY/ where I tried to point out that I don't perceive build of trivial package done in 7s to be slow. For nontrivial package the mock overhead is negligible. Nobody replied (in constructive way). On various places, I have suggested to use "--no-clean" option for repeated builds. But in the whole thread, there was no confirmation that anyone would use it. Yet I am repetitively told that mock is slow, you repeat it down bellow once again without any evidence. Your only argument to this discussion is that mock is slow, because you believe so and other people have said so. I would really appreciate if I was given some specific counterargument supported by numbers.That "mock is slow" is just one of the claims, and not the prevalent one at that. It is also inconvenient. Takes disk space and bandwidth I do not care for. It is complex to use when what you care is to fit the current running systems. And in general, for those that do not use it is yet another thing to learn to use that I personally do not care for learning as I have no need for it. You are claiming that "fedpkg local" is bad, we are responding it is not, we use it and it works better for us. As for many other things there isn't just one true way, mock works best for you, and local works best for others, why is that a problem ?
I have started the thread reflecting on experience of fresh packager coming to Fedora. First issue was that `fedpkg local` pollutes the work directory. There is also second issue, that `fedpkg local` is polluting the whole system with build dependencies (and this is my concern). I don't think that anybody should have polluted work directory and their system by packagers work. If experienced packages are fine with that, so be it. But I am concerned, that these practices are possibly suggested to fresh coming people.
I have already withdrew the original proposal, but that does not mean I am less concerned.
Vít
Simo.VítIn particular, *numerous* people have told you that mock builds are slow for us. Instead of telling us that we're wrong about our own experience because it doesn't match yours, make an effort to understand what the difference is between them. Or accept it for what it is: feedback that *you asked for*. Thanks, --Robbie_______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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