On Thursday, January 28, 2021 7:55:05 PM CET Vít Ondruch wrote: > Dne 28. 01. 21 v 19:36 Simo Sorce napsal(a): > > On Thu, 2021-01-28 at 19:26 +0100, Vít Ondruch wrote: > >> Dne 28. 01. 21 v 15:51 Robbie Harwood napsal(a): > >>> Vít Ondruch <vondruch@xxxxxxxxxx> writes: > >>>> Thx everybody for their responses and sorry for such controversial > >>>> topic. I am not going to propose this upstream after all. However I > >>>> have > >>>> few takeaways: > >>>> > >>>> 1) I see responses of Fedora long timers and I understand that you > >>>> have polished workflows. But I really think that for newcomers, mock > >>>> should be the preferred way. I'd love to see documentation adjusted to > >>>> prefer mock everywhere. > >>>> > >>>> 2) I would really love you to stop using VMs for your build/testing. > >>>> With exception of Kernel and Kernel related issues, the argument of > >>>> "mock being slow" can't stand. Every VM will be more resources hungry > >>>> then mock, slowing every your task. > >>>> > >>>> 3) The argument of mock being slow can't stand, because in one of my > >>>> examples I posted elsewhere in this thread, I picked up the simplest > >>>> package I could and the build took 7 seconds. This is certainly not > >>>> slow, in this time you can't even switch to your email client to check > >>>> your emails. > >>> > >>> So far on this thread, you've asked feedback on a proposal, and then > >>> when provided with feedback you didn't like, repeatedly argued with our > >>> comments and told us we're wrong. This is not a good way to engage with > >>> feedback. > >> > >> I have provided the numbers here: > >> > >> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.o > >> rg/message/4RSZSVMHLIGEYIHLC6NOH3BEWWFQ7JQY/ > >> > >> where I tried to point out that I don't perceive build of trivial > >> package done in 7s to be slow. For nontrivial package the mock overhead > >> is negligible. Nobody replied (in constructive way). On various places, > >> I have suggested to use "--no-clean" option for repeated builds. But in > >> the whole thread, there was no confirmation that anyone would use it. > >> > >> Yet I am repetitively told that mock is slow, you repeat it down bellow > >> once again without any evidence. Your only argument to this discussion > >> is that mock is slow, because you believe so and other people have said > >> so. I would really appreciate if I was given some specific > >> counterargument supported by numbers. > > > > That "mock is slow" is just one of the claims, and not the prevalent > > one at that. > > It is also inconvenient. > > Takes disk space and bandwidth I do not care for. > > It is complex to use when what you care is to fit the current running > > systems. > > And in general, for those that do not use it is yet another thing to > > learn to use that I personally do not care for learning as I have no > > need for it. > > > > You are claiming that "fedpkg local" is bad, we are responding it is > > not, we use it and it works better for us. > > > > As for many other things there isn't just one true way, mock works best > > for you, and local works best for others, why is that a problem ? > > I have started the thread reflecting on experience of fresh packager > coming to Fedora. First issue was that `fedpkg local` pollutes the work > directory. There is also second issue, that `fedpkg local` is polluting > the whole system with build dependencies (and this is my concern). I > don't think that anybody should have polluted work directory and their > system by packagers work. If experienced packages are fine with that, so > be it. But I am concerned, that these practices are possibly suggested > to fresh coming people. > > I have already withdrew the original proposal, but that does not mean I > am less concerned. > > > Vít I have never used `fedpkg local` myself. However, what prevents me from doing the following steps? $ fedpkg srpm $ sudo yum builddep ... $ rpmbuild --rebuild ... $ sudo yum install ... The above is my usual workflow when I debug something. Is it also going to be prohibited in some way? Kamil > > Simo. > > > >> Vít > >> > >>> In particular, *numerous* people have told you that mock builds are > >>> slow for us. Instead of telling us that we're wrong about our own > >>> experience because it doesn't match yours, make an effort to understand > >>> what the difference is between them. Or accept it for what it is: > >>> feedback that *you asked for*. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> --Robbie > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> Fedora Code of Conduct: > >> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List > >> Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List > >> Archives: > >> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject. > >> org _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
