On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 6:01 PM Mario Torre <neugens@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 5:28 PM Robbie Harwood <rharwood@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > You would not expect a GCC devroom to be concerned about the problems > > > of all packages written in C and C++, so why would Java be any > > > different? > > > > Honestly? I totally would expect that. Wouldn't that be better for > > everyone? > > > > Compilers aren't special here: every package that wishes to continue to > > have users *needs* to care about those users. Maintenance and features > > need to be tailored to actual use cases. Otherwise, it's a waste of > > time, and just further irritates said users. > > That's not the place for such discussions, this is not a problem that > is general to Java (and wouldn't be general to the C or C++ languages > in the case of the GCC example above), is specific to Fedora and even > more specific to some of the packages and needs to be addressed within > the Fedora community. If there are problems that leak upstream in > terms of patching requirements the maintainers (and perhaps the > package users) have the duty to carry this work, you can't expect the > rest of the world to discuss those issues during a developer > conference dedicated to the programming language and its development, > even when there is a mild overlap in interest because some of the > involved people are the same, and neither you can draw conclusions on > the interests of the Red Hat Java leadership based on the schedule > alone. > > To get back on topic, I don't have the feeling that the java packaging > is so dismantled, and I use java packages from RHEL and Fedora often, > but I do know there's a series of problems with some of the packages, > and I understand from this thread that some of the issues stem from > the decision to use modules (sorry, I don't make the rules here, and > while I also don't understand why modules are such a hot topic I can't > help on the merit). Now, a constructive discussion would go toward > suggestions on how to fix those problems not focus on pointless > deliberation on what or how the Java DevRoom should be run and whether > it should transform into a Fedora Java Packaging DevRoom. (snip) > So, what are your suggestions, and what can we do to help? > You want to know how to help improve the Java stack in fedora? Well, the Stewardship SIG is now basically the home of the RPM Java stack, minus eclipse. But we've been working together with mbooth to get eclipse into shape, as well. So you can look at our tracking project to see what we're working on: https://pagure.io/stewardship-sig/ There's some reports that I generate daily, which contain package dependency information, open pull requests, and update backlogs: - report: https://decathorpe.fedorapeople.org/stewardship-sig.html - pull requests: https://decathorpe.fedorapeople.org/stewardship-sig-prs.html - update backlogs: https://decathorpe.fedorapeople.org/stewardship-sig-stats.html There's also a spreadsheet for a "birds-eye view" of the packages we maintain (which is most Java packages): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11RlwsEs-LJgTOrUD1P4LpsvW9icVQrvrU5RFqxUuccY/edit?usp=sharing If anybody wants to help with Java packaging, these would be the places where I would start: - review our open Pull Requests, - file Pull Requests for missing package updates, - report issues with broken packages. Keep in mind that we're only interested in non-modular Java packages. Mikolaj is working on his Java modules, and sometimes we can benefit from work he's already done there, but mostly the two ways of packaging things have just diverged (since Mikolaj doesn't care about non-modular packages anymore, and we don't want to futz around with shiny Modularity). If we get some people who are interested in keeping the Java stack in fedora working, maybe we can even get the Java SIG off the ground again. The first step in that direction would be to delete the old and outdated wiki page and start fresh ... Fabio PS: I don't even find Java packaging to be that difficult - unless upstreams decide to do weird shit with maven - which you then have to exorcise with XPATH voodoo. Or even better, if they hosted their sources in SVN on Java.net or Google Code. :D > Cheers, > Mario > > -- > Mario Torre > Associate Manager, Software Engineering > Red Hat GmbH <https://www.redhat.com> > 9704 A60C B4BE A8B8 0F30 9205 5D7E 4952 3F65 7898 > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
