On Fri, 2013-10-25 at 21:43 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: > On Fri, 25 Oct 2013 10:40:28 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > > > Ever since I've joined, > > which is ohgod nearly five years ago now, the split has seemed > > reasonably clear and non-controversial, and I really can't recall anyone > > being particularly confused about it, so perhaps this is a problem which > > is still current in your mind but obsolete in cold unfeeling reality? :) > > This is no real basis for trying to improve anything. I'm not here to fight > for anything. If you put it as if I'm the only one, who thinks that the > many lists and their purpose is confusing, well, then let's stop. Well, I don't know which perspective is true for sure, just offering the possibility. > To have two lists about Rawhide (even for the build reports) is the most > fundamental mistake already. Neither list is really 'about' Rawhide. test is about testing, devel is about development. Obviously, both are going to *involve* Rawhide at some point. But our lists are not per-product lists; we don't have a Rawhide list and an F20 list and an F19 list. They're about topic areas. I'm sure the docs team talks about stuff in Rawhide occasionally too; that doesn't mean their topics should be on the same list as development topics that involve Rawhide and QA topics that involve Rawhide and artwork topics that involve Rawhide... > > I think we wind up with more posts that we think would be appropriate > > for users@ than devel@. > > > > To me, at least, test@ has a very clear and specific purpose which is > > quite different from devel@, > > So "very clear" that "qa-devel" has been split off early this year, after > the Fedora QA trac notifications had caused a flood of posts to "test" list. Well, yes? The purpose of the test@ list clearly didn't include those mails, so they were moved. They are clearly also not appropriate for devel@, because they're about QA tooling development. > > and I'd fight with tooth and claw any > > proposal to 'merge' them. Merging them would be a flat-out disaster for > > QA work: we have a different atmosphere and much lower traffic on test@, > > if all our useful and productive QA mails got drowned in the devel@ > > noise it would have a significant negative impact on our ability to do > > useful stuff. > > Moving all Rawhide topics, build failures, build report, package version > upgrade annoucements, ABI breakage announcements, Branched report, Rawhide > report, from devel to test list would be the way to go. Well, no it wouldn't, because most of those mails are relevant to *developers* (or rather, packagers), not testers. Which is why they're sent to devel@. Build failures are fixed by packagers. ABI bumps are fixed by packagers. The errors identified on the Branched and Rawhide reports are fixed by packagers. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
