Am 10.02.2012 08:36, schrieb Ondrej Vasik: > On Fri, 2012-02-10 at 05:45 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote: >> On 02/09/2012 11:06 PM, Jared K. Smith wrote: >>>> - management, whom seems to be driven by a "must have at any price, no point >>>> of return ever" policy. >>> >>> I'm not sure who you're referring to as "management" here >> Everybody involved to drawing strategic and tactical decisions related >> to the Fedora distribution. >> >> My point is, I feel there is a lack of "monitoring", "reporting", and a >> sense of "responsibility" of the different bodies involved and of people >> who are able to draw "unpleasant decisions". >> >> To draw an arbitrary example from recent past: Ask yourself - What was >> the shape of systemd in F15/F16? Has the situation been fixed in F17? >> >> Wrt. F17: usrmove - Independently from the fact that I consider it to be >> an "idotic foolishness", ask yourself if it is a shape to be part of >> F17? IMO, it's foreseeable it will not be ready, because there are too >> many unknows attached to it. I now would expect those people having been >> involved to stand up, show responsibility and revisit their decisions - >> This obiviously doesn't happen. > > One additional item to this topic. > I'm the Fedora filesystem package maintainer (and because it has it's > upstream on the fedorahosted, you can say upstream...) and I was aware > of the "usrmove" feature only from the discussions and feature pages. > For quite a long time I waited for an email from Harald - with some > "please include the changes into upstream git". The only mail I received > from him was the mail on 24th of January - saying - do not build the > package. Nothing more... Strange - when the first thing for Fedora > maintainers should be "upstream first" and imho violation of Proven It had to happen all at one time in koji. > packager rules in some cases . For me it was kind of misusing proven > packager - as e.g. in coreutils package he did following change: > > +%check > +# FIXME: check failed!! > +# make check > (part of > http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/scm-commits/2012-January/725967.html , > quite easy to miss when reading the commit mail) > without even informing me about that! I don't see disabling testsuite at > buildtime as the necessary minimal change. Not saying anything that with > the /bin/ provides the spec file looks really like a mess now. The testsuite was failing in rawhide at patch creation time (without any usrmove patches). Works now again. Just turned it on. > > Given the fact that there is NO ultimate gain from the usrmove feature > (ok, I understand all the arguments for the usrmove, but I don't see > them that bright at the moment as Harald and fastboot guys - e.g. the > compatibility of distro locations is not only in the locations of > binaries and we have much more differences in Fedora) That's your personal opinion.. I tend to differ. Please read http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/TheCaseForTheUsrMerge again. > > I really don't know why the REAL ACTIONS on this feature were started > that late in F17 release cycle - several months after branching. Because politics took so long. > Only 3 > weeks after the start of usrmove git commits you now have even F18 git > branch and F18 would have been MUCH better for it. > In addition, for mock builds of F17+ packages with usrmove support on > RHEL-6 systems you now need UNSUPPORTED rpm from Harald pages > ( http://people.redhat.com/harald/downloads/rpm/4.8.0-19.el6.0.usrmove.1/ ). and? It will get in RHEL-6.3 ... SUPPORTED! That's a self inflicted wound, binding Fedora development to RHEL-6. > > I'm sure that reverting the changes at the moment would mean much more > confusion and that there is the only option now - finish it. > But I hope that FESCO will learn from this "feature" and will set the > "deadlines" for distro-wide features with higher impact sooner - so > there will be enough time to postpone them to Fedora X+1 in the case of > immaturity. I think there is a difference between usrmove and e.g. > GIMP2.8 feature (no offence to Gimp). > > > Greetings, > Ondrej Vasik > -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
