On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Stephen Gallagher <sgallagh@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > On Fri, 2014-10-03 at 20:45 +0200, drago01 wrote: >> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:42 PM, Stephen Gallagher <sgallagh@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, 2014-10-03 at 14:21 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: >> >> On Fri, 2014-10-03 at 09:00 -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: >> >> > On Thu, 2014-10-02 at 20:26 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: >> >> > > On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 16:10 -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: >> >> > > > On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 10:25 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: >> >> > > > > On Tue, 2014-09-30 at 14:12 -0400, Josh Boyer wrote: >> >> > > > > > > I don't really like that people that do upgrades get a worse >> >> > > > > > > experience because of that pointless change but well ... >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > There's nothing that says a user doing an upgrade wants to upgrade to >> >> > > > > > Workstation. There's also nothing that is going to magically upgrade >> >> > > > > > them to Workstation anyway. Also, they don't have this in F20 so >> >> > > > > > their experience is not worse, it's the same. >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > I think fedup needs to to require specification of the product when >> >> > > > > upgrading from Fedora 20: >> >> > > > > [...] >> >> > > > >> >> > > > I've been trying to work with the packaging folks and the fedup >> >> > > > maintainer, but right now it's looking infeasible to do a >> >> > > > non-productized (F20) upgrade to a Productized F21. People who want >> >> > > > Workstation are going to have to do a clean install. People upgrading >> >> > > > from F20 will end up with non-productized F21 (equivalent >> >> > > > to a Spin). >> >> > > >> >> > > In the Fedora Workstation PRD we have: >> >> > > >> >> > > Robust Upgrades >> >> > > >> >> > > Upgrading the system multiple times through the upgrade process should >> >> > > give a result that is the same as an original install of Fedora >> >> > > Workstation. Upgrade should be a safe and process that never leaves the >> >> > > system needing manual intervention. >> >> > > >> >> > > This refers, of course, to upgrades between versions of Fedora >> >> > > Workstation, but I think we're sending a strong message in the wrong >> >> > > direction if we make it require a complex manual procedure to upgrade >> >> > > from F20 to F21 Workstation. >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > Well, the procedure isn't necessarily *complex*, but it *is* necessarily >> >> > manual. Please see my email on devel@, I talked about the actual >> >> > technical issues that are getting in the way here (and the fact that >> >> > we're dangerously close to Beta for trying to land entirely new code in >> >> > fedup...) >> >> >> >> There's three separate things here: >> >> >> >> * We need to make it almost impossible to *accidentally* upgrade to >> >> non-productized F21 and think you are getting the Workstation >> >> experience. >> >> >> > >> > I think this is the wrong way of thinking about this. As noted elsewhere >> > in this or the other thread, we *cannot* make the assumption that >> > someone upgrading from F20 actually *wants* it to be Fedora Workstation, >> > even if they happen to have the GNOME desktop installed. >> > >> > There are plenty of people who are using a system installed from one of >> > the spins as well as people who are using Fedora as a server (possibly >> > headless) and having the upgrade process result in Workstation except >> > when *explicitly* chosen is not acceptable. >> > >> > >> >> * We need to provide a feasible way to upgrade from F20 >> >> Fedora 21 Workstation. >> >> >> > >> > I would certainly be in favor of having this. The definition of >> > "feasible" is very complicated, though. This can be solved, but it's >> > debatable if it can be solved sensibly in the remaining time. (See the >> > explanations in the other thread). >> >> Why from the chatlog you attached elsewhere one would conclude that >> the "yum install fedora-relase-foo && fedup" would work. Or what did I >> miss? > > You missed the part where that approach takes away the no-manual-steps > part of it. If we go that path, then you MUST explicitly do 'yum install > fedora-release-[standard|workstation|cloud|server]' before you can run > fedup. > > If people feel that this is an acceptable approach, we can investigate > it, but the general sense I was getting is that "fedup --network 21" > should work on its own with no other interaction. Well "fedup --network 21" could simply check if any of those packages is present and if not print a message. Shouldn't this be that big of a change. -- desktop mailing list desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
