Re: FYI - Command Line Programs for the Blind, particularly Mutt, Emacs, and Emacspeak

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Greetings!


It's been a few years, I'm not sure how many, since I last tried Mutt.  I seem to have a problem following some kinds of documentation that other folks have less trouble with, so maybe that was why I quit then.


I was prompted to look at Emacs again after attending a fall, 2019 Free Software Foundation day-long program on it.  I found a book on Bookshare that I think is titled HARLEY HAHN'S EMACS FIELD GUIDE.  I took quite a while to get focused on it, for reasons not worth mentioning.  Anyway, it probably was a better starting point for me than the Emacs help, except that its lists of commands are images I can't read (a common Bookshare problem, I've found). Still, there's enough actual text that the book has helped.


And, if I'm about to play seriously with Emacs, I might as well tackle Emacspeak and determine what I think of the "audio desktop."  I can only hope and try to work at it.


Al


On 4/14/22 14:11, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
Al, to be fair I'm not sure when you last tried Mutt, ut I've run across a lot of sample configs that are just copy into a text file and plug your info in and save as .muttrc in your home directory and it workks, a quick search of mutt gmail config or mutt hotmail config usually leads to several sample ones to use. Thoughh I'm still unsure if anyone's made sensible modern keybinds or emaccs/emacspeak however, I've no clue where to even begin with that with the sheer amount of keys/keystrokes that'd need changing up

On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 02:01:27PM -0400, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
Kyle, I'm very glad to know that a Linux user with your level of knowledge
can still say that Emacs and Mutt have steeper learning curves than you find
worth the trouble.  (Correct me if I've oversimplified your view.) As it
happens, I've decided to try again with both Emacs and Emacspeak, and
possibly Mutt, but now I don't feel like such a dummy for having had trouble
with this software in my early and even later days with Linux.


Best!

Al


On 4/13/22 19:34, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
These debates can be both informative and useful for those new to linux
who haven't made their choices yet.

Unfortunately I would say probably not. Usually in situations like this,
once someone trying to make a choice to come to Linux or to stay where
they are sees all this get lost in a shell and hand-edit config file
kind of stuff, they usually run away before they get stuck in the
quicksand. Or worse, they end up tossing the virtual machine someone
told them to try into the recycle bin because it is just too hard to
use. Of course this also applies when new users are trying to find out
what applications are available for this or that and they are told of
EMACS, Mutt, Vim and the finer points of what people affectionately call
"links the chain" and "lynx the cat" vs w3m with all their quirks, or
having to learn how to get startx to play nice so that they can run a
more capable browser like the Firefox, Google Chrome or Brave that they
are used to using, that is not only more comfortable, but is necessary
on today's web, when all they had to do was to run a live iso of a
ready-made distribution with a fairly modern desktop on it and they
could be right at home in minutes. If someone asks me about this Linux
thing they heard about, I like to tell them about what they can have up
and running and feel fairly comfortable using in about 30 minutes or
less, and if they like that, great. Then if they want to learn more
about the power user stuff they can do, then and only then would I even
mention a terminal, a shell or terminal applications. I probably still
wouldn't say too much about EMACS or Mutt other than their availability
though, since even though I've been using various Linux distros for
almost 20 years, started of all things on Slackware, and even ran a home
web and email server fairly early on, even I gave up on both of those
because of the steep learning curve involved in just getting past the
initial setup process. Even now, even though I still have my own mail
and web servers, I still tend to use things like ISPConfig for my server
administration, since although the web server is very easy to set up,
deploying a mailbox on a virtual domain is still not for the faint of
heart, unless it has an automated script like what comes in most
web-based control panels that makes it much easier to set up. I mean if
not for the craziness involved in setting up a mail server with 3 or 4
mailboxes on 2 to 3 domains, I would just run caddyserver for my
websites, which can do a lot really easily, and the caddyfile is very
easy to understand and edit, although like most other web servers, it
doesn't support .htaccess, which does lots of per site URL rewriting and
custom error stuff that just isn't as easy to do on a per-site basis in
other ways supported by non-htaccess servers. Still in any case, one
point I really like to make is that although other operating systems
tend to take features away from users, Linux tends to add features to
desktop environments and applications, or just to add applications, all
while taking care not to take things away from power users, and even
adds things that make the power user experience better over time.


Sure I know this list is a general one, aimed at users of all levels and
skillsets. But being a more generalized list, it's probably better to
keep things on a more general level that while not excluding power
users, won't make new users turn tail and run for the window either.
This is the beauty of the GNU/Linux landscape as a whole. It's not the
wilderness, and it's not a barren wasteland either. It's a whole world
with enough freedom and even comfort for everyone. I found long ago that
it is not the geeky OS that only a server admin or someone with a
masters in computer science could love, and I do enjoy letting the world
know that I use it and they can too.

~Kyle

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