Al, to be fair I'm not sure when you last tried Mutt, ut I've run across a lot of sample configs that are just copy into a text file and plug your info in and save as .muttrc in your home directory and it workks, a quick search of mutt gmail config or mutt hotmail config usually leads to several sample ones to use. Thoughh I'm still unsure if anyone's made sensible modern keybinds or emaccs/emacspeak however, I've no clue where to even begin with that with the sheer amount of keys/keystrokes that'd need changing up On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 02:01:27PM -0400, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: > Kyle, I'm very glad to know that a Linux user with your level of knowledge > can still say that Emacs and Mutt have steeper learning curves than you find > worth the trouble. (Correct me if I've oversimplified your view.) As it > happens, I've decided to try again with both Emacs and Emacspeak, and > possibly Mutt, but now I don't feel like such a dummy for having had trouble > with this software in my early and even later days with Linux. > > > Best! > > Al > > > On 4/13/22 19:34, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: > > These debates can be both informative and useful for those new to linux > > > who haven't made their choices yet. > > > > > > Unfortunately I would say probably not. Usually in situations like this, > > once someone trying to make a choice to come to Linux or to stay where > > they are sees all this get lost in a shell and hand-edit config file > > kind of stuff, they usually run away before they get stuck in the > > quicksand. Or worse, they end up tossing the virtual machine someone > > told them to try into the recycle bin because it is just too hard to > > use. Of course this also applies when new users are trying to find out > > what applications are available for this or that and they are told of > > EMACS, Mutt, Vim and the finer points of what people affectionately call > > "links the chain" and "lynx the cat" vs w3m with all their quirks, or > > having to learn how to get startx to play nice so that they can run a > > more capable browser like the Firefox, Google Chrome or Brave that they > > are used to using, that is not only more comfortable, but is necessary > > on today's web, when all they had to do was to run a live iso of a > > ready-made distribution with a fairly modern desktop on it and they > > could be right at home in minutes. If someone asks me about this Linux > > thing they heard about, I like to tell them about what they can have up > > and running and feel fairly comfortable using in about 30 minutes or > > less, and if they like that, great. Then if they want to learn more > > about the power user stuff they can do, then and only then would I even > > mention a terminal, a shell or terminal applications. I probably still > > wouldn't say too much about EMACS or Mutt other than their availability > > though, since even though I've been using various Linux distros for > > almost 20 years, started of all things on Slackware, and even ran a home > > web and email server fairly early on, even I gave up on both of those > > because of the steep learning curve involved in just getting past the > > initial setup process. Even now, even though I still have my own mail > > and web servers, I still tend to use things like ISPConfig for my server > > administration, since although the web server is very easy to set up, > > deploying a mailbox on a virtual domain is still not for the faint of > > heart, unless it has an automated script like what comes in most > > web-based control panels that makes it much easier to set up. I mean if > > not for the craziness involved in setting up a mail server with 3 or 4 > > mailboxes on 2 to 3 domains, I would just run caddyserver for my > > websites, which can do a lot really easily, and the caddyfile is very > > easy to understand and edit, although like most other web servers, it > > doesn't support .htaccess, which does lots of per site URL rewriting and > > custom error stuff that just isn't as easy to do on a per-site basis in > > other ways supported by non-htaccess servers. Still in any case, one > > point I really like to make is that although other operating systems > > tend to take features away from users, Linux tends to add features to > > desktop environments and applications, or just to add applications, all > > while taking care not to take things away from power users, and even > > adds things that make the power user experience better over time. > > > > > > Sure I know this list is a general one, aimed at users of all levels and > > skillsets. But being a more generalized list, it's probably better to > > keep things on a more general level that while not excluding power > > users, won't make new users turn tail and run for the window either. > > This is the beauty of the GNU/Linux landscape as a whole. It's not the > > wilderness, and it's not a barren wasteland either. It's a whole world > > with enough freedom and even comfort for everyone. I found long ago that > > it is not the geeky OS that only a server admin or someone with a > > masters in computer science could love, and I do enjoy letting the world > > know that I use it and they can too. > > > > ~Kyle > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Blinux-list mailing list > > Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list -- Jace's words are up there. 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