> Do you think that is unethical? To pretty much all the examples you cite, I would say YES, unethical. And to show you just what sort of crank I really am, I am seriously considering getting rid of all technology that doesn't respect my wishes. I realize that this would make it hard to function in modern society, the way most people live in it, at least, but I don't usually need it. I lived without computers at all until I was nearly 30, when I at last got myself a Commodore Amiga; and it would be another 12 years without Internet, which I got in the year 2000. So it would not change my life much, if I did without it entirely. I could figure out how to adapt, though I might have to move to somewhere remote and totally off-grid. But that is not addressing your question, and I recognize that. And besides, I am not really a Luddite; I would just prefer to use technology on my own terms, when it serves me. I could give a list of some of my bad experiences, but I imagine we all could make a similar list. And while I entertain fantasies of going off-grid and living like a wild man, I am also considering buying solar panels and a charging station and some other solar-powered or solar-dependent gadgets. I feel that it would be a good idea, just in case, as we all see what's going on in the news. Likewise, I realize that the business model has changed, and as you point out, the lines are blurred, and everybody is trying to find their way. My basic point, though, remains the same. When I say that data should not be collected in the first place, I mean of course when it violates our privacy. If I were terribly worried about people watching what I do, about hidden tracking and surveillance and all that, then I would never be able to leave the house. Also, however, I have experienced the dark side of technology, up-close and personal, with a number of pretty scary events. Who can guess when some offhand, careless remark of mine will get me into big trouble? Our words can be taken out of context and twisted, and make it seem like we said the opposite of what we meant. (And that, unfortunately, is happening a lot nowadays.) Already I have had the men in black show up at my door, no ID or badges or anything, apparently just to harass and intimidate me (since what they told me made no sense); on several occasions I have found myself confronted by police with weapons drawn, merely because I did something that seemed suspicious to somebody. (Carrying heavy bags, full of fruit from the farmer's market, got me followed by police into the library. On another occasion I was nearly shot in the library, a different library, for a bike seat. I could give about a dozen more experiences.) I am not doing anything especially interesting, unless thoughts really can be considered crimes. If I have got put on somebody's list as *potentially* doing something wrong, or likely to do something wrong in the future, then I would definitely like to keep my data from being collected. Obviously (to myself), they are getting false readings, are misinterpreting what they see, or they are just looking for an excuse. I don't really care the reason; I don't care if it is bad for business. If possible, I would like to keep myself alive for a few more years, and to keep my freedom and privacy intact, so that I can finish something that I have been working on for many years. I don't know where it crosses over that line, from what is appropriate and what violates my rights and my privacy, but we all know that it happens too much. When you find yourself surrounded by a ring of police with their weapons drawn, you might also reconsider, like myself, just how much is "too much"; maybe you will say, whatever you know about me, it's wrong. When it gets to that point, then you, too, will agree that something is wrong with this picture. And this could be stopped by not collecting that data in the first place. As I say, stop the problem at the root. Don't wait until your data is already collected, then complain that laws and safeguards did not protect you. Somebody else said (I am paraphrasing from memory) that it's too late, that ship has sailed. Well, that is sort of like saying that it is too late for me to change my bad habits, because I am already pretty much set in my ways, and it would be too much trouble for myself and everybody else to make such big changes. It might be that I sent unencrypted emails in the past, and still do, or that I allowed my data to be collected when using platforms that I didn't fully understand. But now that I recognize the dangers, I want to break myself of those bad habits. I still say that it is worth our consideration; that we ought to move in this general direction. And moreover, I believe that in a few years you will find that things take a sharp turn in either one direction (towards more privacy and respect for users) or the other (towards more surveillance, and the disappearance of privacy and freedom). It might be that we are forced into giving up our privacy, completely and for ever, but I hope that I shall not live so long to see it. Since Nik has offered a tutorial, we might at least take him up on it. Perhaps he can work out the details with us, here and now on the list, and/or post clear instructions on the wiki. Michael was also saying something about creating a shared key for the list, but it may be better for us instead just to do it individually. Regarding buying books online, by the way: I buy a lot of books. I mean, more than anybody ought to do; there have even been some who express the opinion that I buy more books than is good for me, and where I see a library, they can see only clutter. But anyway, it is nearly all for my own research, not much is just for pleasure. For myself, I would recommend that you try abebooks.com. I search using a torified browser, and only move to a different browser and direct connection when I purchase something. I never look at ads or recommendations. I abandoned Amazon for good, a long time ago already. ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
