On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 5:01 PM, Scott Haneda <talklists@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Nov 13, 2008, at 7:31 AM, Alan in Toronto wrote: > >> On Wed, November 12, 2008 8:31 pm, Scott Haneda wrote: >>> Currently I would like to improve on the issue in this image: >>> http://www.newgeo.com/web/misc/172910-sm.png >>> There is plenty of room to show more of the name, how can I >>> accomplish >>> this? >>> >>> As seen in this image, there is a grey area to the right, this can be >>> larger at times, is there any way to get full expansion of the table: >>> http://www.newgeo.com/web/misc/17316-sm2.png >> > with the issues I was having, I tracked down the CSS selector in the > table that is iterated in the message view. I download the themes Download? It's already there in the SM directory on your web server. > folder in SM, and searched all files for the name of that selector, > and can not locate it. I am sure it is there, but I only put a small > amount of effort into it. The themes directory is deprecated I think. You should look in either the css or templates (such as templates/default/css) directories. If you found the style name already, all you need to do is grep the whole source tree to find it. > I think there are a few important things to take note of from this. > First, SM is in wide deployment, major ISP's, schools, and other > places use it. It has proven to me, and to others, by users using it > and speaking with their actions, that it is the best IMAP web client > around. Thank you. > That said there are at best, 2 good skins for the application. Both What's the other one beside NutsMail? > are paid, and both modify the source of the SM install, and are much > more than just css file sand graphics. I do not at all mind paying They are both probably based on 1.4.x. One of the objectives of the 1.5.2+ code is to make SM skinnable by anyone. We will provide a place for people to submit skin packs and others to download them, just like plugins. > for the work, but I do mind that they have a ridiculous upgrade > policy. SM moves fast in development, and skin makers do not move so > fast. I do not want to have to trust their code, instead of just > trusting a benign css file. CSS can be not-so-benign sometimes I think, but that's beside the point. > The skins that come with SM, largely, to me, look a lot like terminal > coloring gone bad :) Of all the installs I have used, I have never > seen more than just the default classic in use by others. I have seen > a few of the 2 aforementioned skins in use, but again, they do not > keep up with the rapid development cycle of SM. You are welcome to play with the default (or default advanced) skin in 1.5.2 and change it to suit your needs (and share with the community please). Once 1.5.2 becomes more stable, the hope is that it catches on and people begin to develop skins for it. But as I mentioned earlier in this thread, finding free time to complete some of the big development tasks needed for 1.5.2 has become difficult for many of us on the team. > @Mail is really excelling in this area, unfortunately, they make a non > compliant IMAP web client, and are bad on support, they simply do not > offer it, and their mailing list of is no help. Their web client > looks and works how a web client should, but it simply does not work > with all IMAP RFC standards. For me to trudge through their code, > without any help from them to even enable a debug mode, is of no > interest to me, I would rather put my time into this community, where > there is solid support, and people who seem to genuinely care, over > pushing a semi-free web client in order to ultimately push a sellable > 'enterprisey' version. > > I have been doing php development for as long as I can remember, 15 > years or more, along with a lot of other languages and server admin > stuff. I have more than enough CSS skills to help out in this area. > I think a good deal of people do not use SM because they install it, > and judge a book by it's cover. I agree. > For lack of a better word, SM needs a > 'web 2.0' skin, maybe not so heavy on the AJAX junk, but something > that gives this book a good cover. Another development goal of 1.5.2 is to support "AJAX"-like functionality. The foundations for this are already in place. > I have wanted to do this for a long time. I see some hurdles. As the > above poster mentioned, there are not the best of ways to hook into > the core code. SM has a very flexible "hook" architecture for plugins. As of 1.5.2, there is very little in the way of output (which usually means HTML, but doesn't have to be) involved in the core. Graphical tweaks are not made in the core. > I can not simply start working on the CSS. This is > not a case like CSS Zen Garden, where every chunk of html is > referenced by a CSS class and you can go to town. If you disable all > CSS in SM, it does not degrade down to a text only display, but seems > to be very table driven, and the frames, those may or may not need to > go, depending on which side of the fence you are on with that debate. You *can* start working on the CSS. Create a skin based on the default one for starters and try tweaking the css therein. If you find ways to make it degrade better (pulling out table code would be fine in many cases - if you have suggestions - or better - patches, we'd love to hear/see them). SM will probably remain with frames by default, but it is possible to build a skin that doesn't use frames. > I am very much willing to put the time into this. The problem is, I > will be making changes to the core, and I am not in the slightest bit > familiar with how those changes get back into the main core release. > I would be making a massive change to the look and feel of SM, I would > not have much desire to make my changes, and then make a second skin > to drop SM back down into the current standard look and feel. You misunderstand the architecture and development goals of 1.5.2. You might poke around the community or list archives if you are still not clear. We'd love to have you look at creating a better looking skin or suggest changes to the core that will help make skin development easier or more sensical. Currently the skins and related code are still being cleaned up, so any skin you create now may need to be updated as 1.5.2 matures. It's still probably a bit "dirty" (relies on tables, style names are a mess, etc) because it was a nightmare to pull the HTML out of the core and into the template files. Steve did an amazing job with that, but we are still needing some cleanup and there remain a couple outstanding technical/architectural decisions. > So this would very much be a totally new default design for SM. If I > fork it out, then I get into the same issue of having to take the > current version, and re-apply my changes to it. No, not if you make a skin. > I think that sums up the stumbling block I am talking about. If > someone can suggest to me if this is even a want of most users, and > how to best go about it, I would love to get started. As it is now, I > think the only way to do it is to take a version, change it, and > release it as a skin with the source code modified as well. This is a > maintenance mess for a skin developer. No, it's not the only way, if you're looking at 1.5.2. > SM needs to drop down to a html validated, compliant, text only > version when the CSS calls are removed. If that is done, then anyone > can simply grep out all the CSS classes, and go design crazy with it. > I think there would be more relevant designs if this burden was removed. > > Thanks for listening. Any comments are appreciated, and please, do > not take this as me taking any stabs at SM, as I said, it is the > standard of rock solid IMAP clients out there, there is nothing even > close when it comes to just working, but we do need to deal with the > judged book by it's cover issue. We'd love to have your input and energy. I think you may find the layout and styles in 1.5.2 are still a frustrating mess, but we will gladly submit fixes for that to the core so that you can maintain a skin that just plugs right into the core, which is what you are asking for. Also, if you can please report the style name for the table issue you identified (and even the fix if you find it), I will put the fix into the default skins. - Paul ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ----- squirrelmail-users mailing list Posting guidelines: http://squirrelmail.org/postingguidelines List address: squirrelmail-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx List archives: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.mail.squirrelmail.user List info (subscribe/unsubscribe/change options): https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/squirrelmail-users
