On Wed, Nov 30, 2005 at 06:05:02AM +0100, Alchemie fotografiche wrote: > > Michael Schumacher <schumaml@xxxxxx>wrote(i quote) > > > <Proposing a sane description for the implementation andpreferably > <coming up with a patch is the best way to get new features into GIMP. > > I'm a user not a developer: i get no idea how to make a "sane descrition for the implementation" even less i'm able to "coming up with a patch" > > ...And ,i'm sure of this ,i was not shouting, > the linux people who can write this stuff consider capital letters to be the same as shouting. for right or wrong, they measure the intelligence of the person requesting features with that and a few other things. > i just discover why a lot of (in my opinion)very useful plugin have not much usability(FOR SIMPLE USERS LIKE ME) > > ...NO PREVIEW=NO USER FRIENDLY=VERY LITTLE USABILITY > you forget or do not understand "Edit-->Undo". as you try a few values here and there in the scripts, you get the hang of the information. it is the same as a preview in almost every way except one important way, it already works. > (usability is not supposed to be one of the main goal of next Gimp releases? Users can try to say something about or only the "expert in usability" will be listened ? ) > i think plenty of developers have listened to this desire of all of the usability experts. a few of them have even taken some time to help the usability experts to understand how to make graphics. perhaps there is a lack of understanding in the group of usability experts and that is how difficult some of these things are to write. there are only a few people actually writing the stuff for this. how much can you write? if every one hundred people who want something special could provide someone to write it -- IT MIGHT GET WRITTEN MORE QUICKLY! IT IS LIKE WISHING FOR A NEW HOUSE BECAUSE IT WOULD BE EASIER! > i really know A LOT of users that could not use "script fu" scripts for this very reason...I THINK THIS IS A PITY FOR BOTH USERS AND SCRIPT FU... and i'm trying, in the most kind and polite way allowed by my very poor english to ask if there is a way to solve this...what is wrong? > yes, it is a pity. they will have to buy software or steal it. and that software might keep them unable to use free software even more than it already does. have you ever tried Edit-->Undo? it was one of the things that gimp could do long before the other apps -- i think you never considered this as something you can do. it would be easier if people tried that than it would be TO EXPLAIN HOW MUCH A PREVIEW ON THE SCRIPT-FU WOULD HELP YOU. > I'm not tryng to disturb your work...(i just discovered few days ago that i can use some useful script only because YOU was so kind to port them from Gimp 1.2 to the 2, i thank you for this) > he submitted a patch to the clone tool today as well. personally, i was impressed by how little it took to make the changes needed to add a new function to a tool! i spent a little time looking at how they were moving things around in the menus now, it is really easy. it is the truth, the code needed to add previews to the script-fu is more complicated than many things that could be done to fix gimp here and there. especially when you look at how Edit-->Undo already does this. > PLEASE NOTE > > Users like me usually think that most the downloadable script don't display a preview because script -fu writers don't give a damn to offer one ... they can immagine how different algoritms could change a imagine so they don't strictly need a preview...So when i suddenly discovered that WAS NOT IN THIS WAY i told myself, "hey maybe some other users was ignorant like me and most of my friends is better they know more about" and i send that message, > users dont think then. i have been writing python scripts. i am to the point where i should start adding progress bar to my scripts. most of that kind of thing is fun. when i write a script and it starts to be complete and looks somewhat professional, i start to look through all of my options to see what is available to make it more so or think about ways to code in things to make it fail-safe. most of the developers think that the users don't think and don't care to think. this means that much of the work is done for love of the application. i actually suspect that they wait until the usability experts go away before making too many good changes. how do you encourage good behavior and understanding from users? by rewarding thoughtlessness or by holding your ground until they lose interest? what would you do? > Script-fu forum was a strange place to do it, i know...very few "simple users" here... , but there is a reason...my sudden discovery was in some way linked to a answer from this forum ..but i'm a painter ...really i can hardly spot any difference between a tiny fu script and a danish shopping list... > i think that you could. i think that if you opened a text editor and looked at one of the scripts, you could see that it is not a danish shopping list. are you basing this assessment on actual experience, because if it is the truth, that you cannot tell the difference between a script-fu and a shopping list, gimp might be too tall for you. that is a fact. > ( I can spot some difference only because if i put a danish shopping list in the GIMP script folder it will not do any good to my Gimp workflow and even some nasty error message will pop up) > did you read either of them? i don't write script-fu or perl-fu but i can help with some of the garbage work to update them. i have even managed to help an old famous script-fu writer fix some really stupid mistakes he made. you act as if script writing is for brain surgeons, you act as if you never read one. it is easy to write one. try to make a logo that you like. or even one that you don't like. remember the steps you took to make it. then look at the gimp scripting aids to see if you can make gimp make it without your help any longer. it took a little patience (with myself first) to start to learn python to make gimp work on its own. when my first script ran, it was one of the best feelings -- better than chocolate (actually, i read that linux users get laid everytime their computers go down -- mine has been up for 132 days and i think that estimation is a little optimistic. so lately, getting a script to run is better than sex even). > I quote > > <Duplicate reports and lots of "me too" messages don't do <any good. They > <might even have the opposite effect, especially if traced <back to your attempt to make people flood Bugzilla. > how do you talk to volunteers? everytime someone writes "me too" and commits this to bugzilla, mail gets sent to the people who can write this stuff. if you have two hours today to give to writing things for gimp, and you spend that deleting useless unproductive bugzilla messages from your mailbox -- that is it. no more two hours in which to get something accomplished in. > For a simple user send a report to Bugzilla is not a easy task ...it's a time wasting experience...Form to be filled for registration,...link to be activeted ...report to be done ...tecnical question to be answered..all in a very tecnical english. everything that is being asked for is already there. simple users should spend some time to understand the free software environment before they have demands and problems with the software. it is exceedingly interesting how windows keeps their users so stupid. i am very sorry about that. very sorry. the humans i have encountered have never been as stupid as some of the windows users of gimp seem to be. almost everything you have asked for is already there. please stay away from bugzilla. wanting it does not get it written more quickly. needing it when you really don't doesn't get it written more quickly either. being complimentary and challenging to the developers in a respectful way might work -- but even that, they will see thru a brown-noser and lose respect for that situation. > For this reasons i don't think "SIMPLE USERS" will never,never flood bugzilla > ...,if some similar report will come this will > only mean ,I suppose, that a lot of people is concerned with the same problem ... more people concerned with a problem will bring to "have the opposite effect"? ...Well " NO COMMENT "about! > CAN YOU MAKE THIS PORTION EASIER TO UNDERSTAND! and NO COMMENT until IT is CLEARER! > quote > <...especially if traced back to your attempt to make people flood Bugzilla>. > > NO ANY ATTEMPT!!!... I JUST SAY instead than flood the script fu writers that cannot do nothing about send some report in the right place...IF THE RIGHT PLACE IS NOT BUGZILLA I BEG YOU PARDON....but are you really sure that users suggestion sometimes are not useful...? > PLEASE READ THE PART ABOUT THE DEVELOPER WHO HAS ONLY TWO HOURS TODAY TO GIVE TO GIMP. > AGAIN I'M NOT TRYNG IN ANY WAY TO SPAM BUGZILLA OR TO PUSH OTHER PEOPLE TO DO IT... > . > I quote again > > <The best place for this message, in its current form, <would have been > <your drafts folder for further refinement > > Sorry english is not my motherlanguage i just did my best..if somebody else could perform a "further refinement" i will be thankful and i grant him from now my permission to replace with it my original message... > IF something seem too rude or offensive toward the Gimp developer team,in this or in my previus message,that was not my will, must due to my ignorance of english language...i really appreciate your work and i thank you for this...I really try to give my contribuition (users feedback could be a contribuition?...i hope so! ) for a better gimp...I hope i will not pushed toward" the opposite result" > . > wishing and wanting doesn't make things happen. pressuring them in anyway that causes them to spend time answering your pressure does not help to make things happen. learning how to use what is there, especially if it effectively accomplishes the same task (please read the part about Edit-->Undo again) think about something that you are good at. being good at it doesn't mean that you can do it quickly, it means that you can do it well. think about the best way that others might help you to do what you do. it is easier to accomplish things for fans for me. a fan is someone who takes the time to see what is there and to use things. this script-fu mail list has a script-fu writing area now. while you are wanting this preview thing, perhaps you could spend sometime looking at the other options that are already there. seriously, this gimp is so much more capable than the one i started with. i enjoyed finding tutorials for other graphic arts apps and getting gimp to do them. the functionality is all there -- it only needs a user with a little access to his/her brain functions. projects like the script-fu thing here make the user group look interested and intelligent and nice to have around. projects like the usability group make users look like they are experts at getting experts to train them how to make graphics. put yourself into their shoes. needing users was never a priority. loving their craft and loving a place to express their craft freely was. THEY DON'T WANT USERS WHO NEED THINGS! THEY WANT INTELLIGENT USERS. ONE INTELLIGENT USER IS WORTH ONE THOUSAND OF THE USERS WHO TYPE THEIR NEEDS LIKE THIS! TRUST ME! I AM A GIMP USER EXPERT! carol sponsored links http://www.gimp.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/2jUsvC/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/e4wwlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/script-fu/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: script-fu-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
