On 27 Feb 2008, at 23:25, Jochem Maas wrote:
Stut schreef:
I DID NOT!! It was him! I only schreef in private!
On 27 Feb 2008, at 20:59, Daniel Brown wrote:
So let this be at least a basic retort to those who don't consider
web development "real programming." Because you'd be surprised how
much I hear, "oh, you work with web stuff, I thought you meant you
were a real programmer."
Well, I'm not. I'm an engineer. At least according to my
paycheck. ;-P
I hear that a lot and by the numbers it's fairly accurate.
In my experience there is a big difference between a web developer
and a software engineer. If someone is hiring a web developer then
I'm not interested. If they want a properly engineered website then
I might be interested.
I guess it's a matter of semantics. to me 'developer' means
'engineer' in terms
of a being able to perform high-level problem analysis, designing a
solution
and implementing it ... within budget, whilst keeping an eye on the
actual
[commercial] goals of the client (as opposed to the goals a client
might speak of ...
what a client says they need, and what they actually need aren't
often the same)
what others might consider a 'developer' I'd call a 'programmer' -
someone
whoe takes my analysis and proposed solution and makes a botch job
of implementing it ...
with the added bonus of not actually ever thinking about their
creation outside
the confines of their little fish bowl.
Yes it is a matter of semantics, but my definition can be boiled down
to.... "A software engineer engineers a solution whereas a web
developer will simply knock up something that works and move on."
I'm not knocking those who don't apply software engineering principals
to their development - they have their place and the vast majority of
PHP-based websites can be successfully implemented from that point of
view. However, I tend to work on large web-based applications rather
than "simple" sites, and in my world applying software engineering
principals helps to ensure the sites are structurally sound,
maintainable and performant (which Apple Mail thinks should be
"perform ant", love it!).
I would never hire a developer who blindly implements a solution
without thinking about what they're doing. I know I'm not perfect, I
know I make mistakes, and on occasion they have cost an embarrassing
amount of money to fix. I'm also fully aware that other people have
insights that would never occur to me. If I'm farming out work to code
monkeys I need them to sanity check my solution and challenge me if
they think something's wrong or they think the have a better solution.
I've interviewed more than my fair share of "web developers" who
couldn't reverse an array without using array_reverse if their life
depended on it. Sometimes it really does scare me!
are there any other restrictions other than not to use
array_reverse()? ;-)
Well, implemented in PHP would be nice, but nothing beyond that. There
are many different ways to do it.
It's worth noting that I've asked the same question to more than a few
interviewees for traditional C/C++ roles, and I never came across one
that couldn't do it which I find quite interesting.
Incidentally, the same distinction between engineers and developers
applies here too, it's certainly not specific to web development.
-Stut
--
http://stut.net/
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