Do you pay for Ubuntu? Maybe a support package? Earlier this week I was pissed at Adobe Dreamweaver CS3 and their developers. And I began thinking that the major difference between open source software (free as in no $ outa my pocket) and retail closed source software is that maybe, just maybe, I have someone to complain to about their bugs in the retail case, and should just be thankful I have an ordered set of bits given to me for free in the open source case that sometimes gets the job done (not to mention sometimes getting support, community, knowledge, etc.). I tend to fall back to DW -- currently CS3, but I'm always looking around. It crashed on a paste attempt after a simple plain text copy. The DW 8 developers didn't know how to use threads (and threads were hyped in that version). They would run a thread to block my current requested action to do something locally by doing something remote (which I state again, I did not request. If you insist on doing the remote action which I didn't request, it's perfect for a thread, so please put it in the background.) I think I prefered DW MX 2004 over DW MX. 8 had a nice "fold your source wherever you want" feature though. I was interested in CS3 for the Spry, but it's weak. Back to basic hand coding with YUI, Scriptaculous, Xajax, etc. using DW basically as an editor and FTP client. Oh and Crimson Editor when I was on MS Windows for Perl files which DW couldn't deal with. I use Xcode on the Mac for Perl files now. I should also start using Xcode for PHP projects. My (perceived) problem is that I need a tool that helps me do my job well, but not so well that it looks like I can be replaced. I'm telling you that Tersus scares me [and I will not tell my employer about it LOL]. gi.tibco.com will be my next real evaluation for an IDE at work. At home I'll spend my time on Tersus. Except I'm into a project at home now that is easier if I use what I know. I just looked at Eclipse PDT (due to this topic and its posts). It looks like a text editor with possible project grouping of files. What do I gain by using it? Aptana is okay for Ajaxy javascript and html (and I think PHP). It's Eclipse again though LOL. I just don't like when I feel constrained and can't absolutely place a widget (like you can in MS Visual Basic). Netbeans Matisse (it has a new name now) can do it, but it deploys to Java. Delphi for PHP (retail product) looks good, but its MS Windows only. And although I can use a VM, I'd rather stay away from MS products. Sun Java Studio Creator can, but it's Java again. What do you want in an integrated development environment? I would expect Zend Studio to be _the_ PHP IDE, but it doesn't meet what I want in an IDE. I want to "just model" like Gentleware's Poseidon. Maybe some UML; maybe just Tersus. I want to refactor like Sun Java Studio Enterprise. I want to layout my GUI like VB, Matisse, and Apple's Interface Builder. I want to remote debug like Zend Studio. I have an extensive list I made in 2006 that would make this post even longer. So I know I'm missing some features. And I want it all for free as in beer and no $ out of my pocket (to use personally). Well, if neccessary, I'll also have the company pay for it and expect to be able to use it at home like the DW licenses. And I'll still be looking around for the next best thing. ----------------------------------------> From: borge@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: php-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 01:03:13 +0100> Subject: Re: PHP ide? OT>> On Friday 09 November 2007 00:47:56 you wrote:>> On Fri, 2007-11-09 at 00:28 +0100, Børge Holen wrote:>>> On Friday 09 November 2007 00:03:32 Instruct ICC wrote:>>>>>>>>> Just wondering if anyone uses an IDE and if so what ones?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ta,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> H.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quanta +, of course.>>>>>>>> Other is to much work and not worth the effort...>>>>>>>> I really cannot see what so many of you guys see in eclipse,>>>>>>>> it's a mistake all together>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I use JOE of course. I really can't see what so many of you guys>>>>>>> see in an IDE :B>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm waiting for Tersus4PHP (which is basically Eclipse>>>>>> http://www.tersus.com -- Go there with FF)>>>>>>>>>> umm yeah right, some create and some steal and brag bout em>>>>> discoveries they've made to save the f* day. ;D>>>>>>>> Not mine. But if you do Java, that's your bogey.>>>>>> oh no, I wasn't hinting your way, I more or less commented on tersus>>> beeing eclipse. It's like the ubunty hype, witch fails to state on the>>> homepage: "we're practically NOTHING without debian".>>>> Ubuntu = Debian + New Life>> you know, thats what I call BS.> if something fails to do anything by itself.. it should've stayed @ home.> Just look at patches and fixes. They only deliver when the debian> maintainers 've a fix ready, and between 2 days to a week for the maintainers> to get it into their own pool.> The reason is simple... Hype! they sell a product witch claims to be more or> less a lifestyle of simplicity like osx, however maintenance is a bitch who> noone wants to ride, and the few who works on buntu rather sell the new stuff> than fixing bogus, tiresome and lenghty faults on imported programs. Just for> the sake of some rich dude that feels he need a momentum.> I'm really getting it out now, cleaning the pipes you can say.>>>>> Cheers,>> Rob.>>>> --> ---> Børge Holen> http://www.arivene.net>> --> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php> _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop by today. http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
