At 7:01 PM -0500 7/18/07, Larry Garfield wrote:
On Wednesday 18 July 2007, tedd wrote:
> And,
I've spent enough time in court to know the difference.
Apparently not.
And how much time have you spent in court? Rhetorical question and
not germane to the topic, but I have spent a considerable amount of
time in court.
> I am always surprised as to how simple wrongful acts can be
diminished with spin. We live in a world of political correctness, to
which we all object, but whenever we can, we add our own spin to the
layers of complexities around us.
And here is the crux of the point that I've been making. Information is not
property. Property cannot be duplicated ad infinitim.
Neither can digital information be duplicated ad infinitum. But what
does that have to do with anything?
Are you saying that only tangible objects can be stolen? Intellectual
property certainly can be stolen. Your digital persona can be stolen.
Are these not things that can be stolen?
Information can, by
its very nature. The concept of "theft" does not apply. The concept of
restricting the flow of information is artificial (to answer someone else's
question from earlier), whereas the laws of physics provide a natural
restriction on the flow of goods.
I'm not talking about information. I'm talking about thought
processes committed to digital. Algorithms, code, art, words,
pictures, music, and other forms of creativity that should have
protection from the "flow of information" by people who don't want to
pay for it.
Also, you said: "Laws of Physics" provide a natural restriction on
the flow of goods?
That got a laugh out of me. Would you be so kind as to tell me what
specific "Laws of Physics" pertain to the real world and not to the
digital one? Would it surprise you that life it's self is digital?
But, we're traveling into another topic to debate and I don't want to
go there -- it's far more complex than this topic.
You are the one buying into the "spin" by claiming that information is as
permanently and inviolately restricted as atoms and molecules are. That is
false. That does not make breaking the law "right", but it is a necessary
fact of nature to understand if you want to understand the law and why the
law exists (in theory).
Well, you got me there! I'm clueless as to what the hell your talking about.
Of course, the media moguls have spent decades selling that spin precisely
because they want to confuse the issue. If you convince people that
information is "property" in the same way that their house or car is, then
you undermine the purpose of copyright (promoting social good, not private
profit), undermine any attempts to reform the law, and undermine the basic
precepts of both open source software (the free flow of information creates
better expressive works through sharing) and Free software (restriction of
the free flow of information is immoral).
That's a mouthful, but totally wrong.
Why shouldn't the media moguls protect their investment, after all
it's their investment?
You appear to expect everyone to provide you with information for
free, is that it?
Is murder "theft"? Of course not, but it's still illegal.
Is rape "theft"? Of course not, but it's still illegal.
Is arson "theft"? Of course not, but it's still illegal.
Is jaywalking "theft"? Of course not, but it's still illegal.
Is speeding "theft"? Of course not, but it's still illegal.
Is copyright infringement "theft"? Of course not, but it's still illegal.
Duh!
Everyone of those example can be looked at as someone stealing
something. Stealing life, stealing personal freedom, stealing use of
processions, and so on. But, that's not at issue here.
You have made this issue into is one of what the definition of
infringement is. It is clearly the act of breaking the law by having
in your procession, or for your use, something that you are not
entitled.
To me, that's stealing -- you call it what you want.
My grandkids have learned that they should never get into a "No, you
did." exchange because I can carry it on forever. However,
considering that this topic is tangent to php copyright
infringement/theft issue, I shall refrain from posting to this
subject to the list again. If you want to take the discussion
off-list, you're welcome.
Larry, please understand that nothing that has been said in this
exchange should be taken as a personal assault on you or your
abilities -- you're simply expressing your opinion and I'm expressing
mine. That's all.
Cheers,
tedd
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