On Tue, 2007-06-19 at 01:39 +0800, Crayon Shin Chan wrote:
> On Monday 18 June 2007 04:00, Robert Cummings wrote:
>
> > Typo... *yawn*.
>
> Please lookup the real meaning of typo .
>From Webster's: an error (as of spelling) in typed or typeset material
I misspelled your as you're. Are you suggesting I used "you're" because
I don't know the difference? Sorry to disappoint, I often type "you're"
instead of "your" and "your" instead of "you're" as I'm typing quickly
and not really spending enough time consciously telling my brain which
to send to my fingers.
> > You knew what was intended.
>
> Of course. I'm not a computer and can make judgements based on context and
> experience. I only brought it up because you seem to delight in
> grammatical correctness (whatever that is).
I delight as is find amusing at times for fun. Your post lacked the
obligatory smiley to indicate humour ;)
> > Don't confuse pursuit of happiness and personal satisfaction as hubris.
>
> As the saying goes, "there's a fine line between personal satisfaction and
> egotism".
I put that exact phrase (double quoted of course) into Google and turned
up the following:
Your search - "there's a fine line between personal satisfaction
and egotism" - did not match any documents.
I'm going to guess you just made it up.
> > They are quite different and you can't glean hubris simply from reading
> > that someone wants to write their own framework. You are jumping to
> > conclusions.
>
> Of course I'm jumping to conclusions - what I'm hoping is that they are
> informed ones. One cannot include every bit of background information
> into a mailing list question so the respondents will have to make
> assumptions.
Jumping to conclusions attempts to bypass logical argument and so rests
on a weak foundation.
> > I have no problems with the philosophy of free software, but I do have
> > issues when someone suggests that we should all follow, like sheep to
> > the slaughter, a particular worldview.
>
> Being different "just because", is not very constructive nor cool - it may
> seem so when you're a teenybopper but I'm sure you've outgrown that stage
> by now. And just because more than 1 person share the same viewpoint or
> common cause does not automagically change them into sheep. Before you go
> jumping into conclusions - I'm not against people being different if
> their "justification" for being different is anything other than "just
> because".
Actually, I was suggesting giving thought to any particular worldview
before jumping on the bandwagon. I wasn't suggesting being different for
the sake of being different. It is important to make informed decisions.
> > What you "_would_ like" and what
> > you "will get" is entirely up to individual in question.
>
> That's why I didn't use "I insist".
No, but you asserted your opinion with disregard for personal choice by
claiming hubris motivates the pursuit of such goals.
> > You presume the use of SourceForge to host such a project.
>
> Well I suppose I could have wrote ""Yet Another Soon To Be Neglected
> Sourceforge/Freshmeat/Savannah/BerliOS/etc Project", but I was relying on
> the readers' powers of inference to fill in the blanks.
As I did and clearly stated below my comment about SourceForge :)
> > Popularity hardly constitutes a measurement of quality.
>
> Again you're jumping to conclusions I never mentioned popularity. However
> when a project has not seen any updates for years and is still marked
> as "in the planning stages" then I _would_ jump to conclusions and assume
> it has been neglected/abandoned/forgotten/etc.
I know for fact that popularity doesn't constitute quality - there's no
jumping to conclusion there.
> > ...they are in no way obligated to do so. If their ideas are bright
> > enough then chances are they will attract their own following.
>
> Just because I may or may not be ranting against something, I'm not
> foolish to think that my rantings will obligate anyone to do anything.
It's good that you understand that.
> > Maybe so, but much science and many breakthroughs are still done by the
> > lone inventory/researcher.
>
> Particularly in the field of astronomy where amateurs are still able to
> contribute greatly. However gone are the days when I could conduct high
> energy particle physics experiments in my own basement and launch
> interplanetary space probes from my own backyard.
I guess you mean science like this:
http://discovermagazine.com/2007/mar/radioactive-boy-scout
The only one placing limits on what you can do is... dun dun dun... YOU!
Well maybe the government also, but that's only until you get caught.
> > You cannot discount the merit of one
> > person's contribution because you think they should have another work
> > style/ethic.
> >
> > > Now going back to the OP:
> > >
> > > "...can some body help me, how to start php framwork for large
> > > site?", in the absence of any other cues, this question gives me the
> > > impression that the questioner is completely clueless (sorry if it
> > > offends you OP), to which the only sensible response is "to use a
> > > variety of existing frameworks until you no longer need to ask the
> > > question".
> >
> > Actually from the OP's statement I see that he wants clues on how to
> > start a FRAMEWORK, not clues on how to start a PROJECT. If he wanted
> > you to infer another intent he probably would have used another set of
> > words. And if he did mean PROJECT instead of FRAMEWORK then he should
> > have stated so since given no other context we can only know what he
> > has written... all else is conjecture. It's possible I missed something
> > though, perhaps invisible font text *uhuh uhuh*, and there really is
> > the word "project" in the OP's post. I'd appreciate you pointing it out
> > to me.
>
> Please point out to me where in the above paragraph (ie starting from the
> line "Now going back to the OP:") do I mention PROJECT. What kind of nit
> are you trying to pick?
Exactly, and where does it say that he wants to join an existing
project?
> And in other news:
>
> > 1. gain experience from doing [your own framework]
>
> I would wager that a clueless newbie would learn faster and more about
> frameworks by _using_ and _studying_ other mature frameworks. Because, to
> re-iterate and paraphrase what I said earlier, the very fact that the OP
> had to ask "how to start my own framework" means that the OP really
> hadn't thought things through and did not do any feasibility studies etc.
Maybe he was about to think things through and just wanted a bump in the
right direction... the right direction being "how to start my own
framework" and not "how to join someone else's project".
> In any case a mailing list is not the best place to answer such an open
> ended question, especially if the best contributions that *you* can come
> up with is
>
> "yes, it's fun to make your own framework"
Ahh, you discount the merit of having fun doing things like this. Many
great inventions have seen the light of day just because someone was
having fun doing them.
> and
>
> > Yep, fly like a chicken.
Except that comment was targeted and not in response to this particular
question. As such it's out of context and inappropriate to this
discussion. But I'll play along...
"Well search through the fully-baked frameworks only, and
don't create another half-baked one."
What constitutes a fully-baked framework? Please indicate some valid
measure of "fully-baked" versus "half-baked". Your quantitative methods
of analysis will be appreciated I'm sure. And remember, popularity isn't
necessarily a measure of quality and so can't be used solely to indicate
fully-baked... maybe fully-baking, but certainly not fully-baked.
> And are you seriously suggesting that you can create a fairly
> decent framework from scratch in less time than it takes to
> evaluate what's out there?
To properly evaluate every framework out there where you actually study
the code and implement some test scenarios to get a fully-baked idea of
it's utility... I think you'll find that the task is quite staggering in
it's breadth.
Cheers,
Rob.
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