I'd still like some actual recommendations for a good book for beginners. I think this discussion is getting a little ridiculous... I have my preferences for a textbook based on 5 years of experience in teaching this class. Of course I teach my students about superfluous parentheses as in: print ("me"); And the difference in quoting styles... But these are COMPLETE beginners, even beyond beginners, many having never even really thought about programming. I am lucky if 1/2 of them have basic HTML. So they get easily confused by differences in sample code... sure they learn, eventually, to deal with that, but if I can avoid making it harder on them I will. I prefer not having variables in double quotes for the most part-- syntax highlighters do a better job, and in the confusing (especially for a beginners) jumble of quoted HTML attributes and PHP syntax, etc... it is easier to spot and see the variables. And it reinforces the difference between displaying a variable and its contents. All that being said, I've yet to see two books that are consistent with one another, much less with me, so I said it was a PREFERENCE. All of your argument has resulted in-- as far as I can tell-- one anti-recommendation. So if anyone has any productive ideas for a good textbook for beginners, my ears are open. c -- Chris Lott -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php