Dear Paul, Many thanks for replaying my message, It was very helpful and now I really understood why I so negative for templating systems... I haven't got programer background or education. I'm self learner. Many of php programmers have other programming experiences, and if I understand correctly their thinking was very different than me. They taking html elements as programming variables. And because of this they want to use tpl files, because that html vas broken their code structure. And In my aproach, I thinking php and html are combined. When thinking code in my mind I realize it with HTML. And my aproach uses combination both of them. This is about to how I educade my mind. And thats why I jumped satyam idea, because html doesn't fit in php naturally, I have to to some ".." things to combine php and HTML and his aproach very close to use html tags naturally in php code. Also you are right that bad tpl experience, I spend my last 3 months to understand a project uses heavy tpl thing. I was very very messed. Of course this programmer responsibility. And one thing. If I remember correctly one of the Larsmus web presentation (its about to performance, Getting rich via php or someting like that) says reducing includes gives some kind of edge about performance. Regards. Sancar -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php