Richard, And your point of before you pay your programmer is what one of my other points was. CF is very rapid development, and you might say the same about PHP. The point is that these are all the things you need to take into consideration, the cost that it would take to develop and maintain in either language, as well as cost involved in the need of the application having to be a true enterprise solution. I am not here to bag php, I am here to make some points about the cost of the application in the overall scenario. Would you develop in a language that you know could not deliver an enterprise solution if in 6 months that's what you really need, and how would you look if you recommended a language because it was free, but in time had to spend more again to make it fully scalable to an enterprise level if it needed it. My point is that both languages have their merits, both have their advantages and disadvantages, but what about the cost is it really worth not researching something properly before jumping into bed with what you think might work? I know what I would do if someone who worked for me, came to me an recommended a language and had not done the research into all possible paths, that person would be very answerable to why we had to spend more down the track. Now that you have bagged CF, lets look at PHP. The amount of work that is needed to implement a reporting solution is hard work and takes a lot of code, the amount of work needed to generate a PDF or even a flash paper is hard work in php, or what about RIA development (Rich Internet Application's) that con leverage of flash to make presentation look good with minimal work. This functionality can and does save more work than you could ever possibly achieve in php, RAD development because it creates less work to achieve something that would take a lot of work and time in php. Don't get me started on the integration of crystal reports and php, I have had to do it and it was not easy compared to the same job in coldfusion. A good developer will know when to use the right tools for the job. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php