Hello Andrew, Wednesday, June 29, 2005, 5:24:50 PM, you wrote: AS> <cfpage> AS> <cfframe> AS> <cfinputHidden Name="test" Caption="New Record"> AS> <cfinputText Name="FirstName" Caption="First Name"> AS> </cfframe> AS> </cfpage> AS> The above is tags that I am referring to very similar to java tag libraries, AS> these tags read data from a database, validate and display the data like AS> windows .net forms in a webpage. Yes the framework took a little time to AS> develop, but it was worth the time invested. Now this same framework even AS> decides whether it is updating inserting or deleting from the database as AS> well as server / client side validation. Very nice, a lot of hard work has obviously gone into the creation of this. Are your CF tags are being inserted into standard HTML documents? What kind of template system do you have in this framework to separate business logic from display logic? What happens if for example one of your tags needed to fetch data from a remote site via SOAP, would you then have to create yet another tag, or add an extra attribute to it? AS> But the thing is PHP can not be delivered onto a J2EE server, AS> coldfusion can http://www.zend.com/store/products/zend-platform/java.php AS> it worth going with something free, or could I leverage of the sms AS> gateway to utilise sms messaging, or even use the report tools AS> built into coldfusion to deliver invoices without too much effort. AS> Or maybe you have data in a database and need to create a pdf, AS> with a simple tag this can be achieved as it is built in. What happens when your built-in PDF component fails to have a feature a client requests? I'm not trying to start an argument btw, I'm asking a question. Most seasoned PHP developers I know already have a wide arsenal of functions and objects at their disposal that can do what you've listed - if they wished to assign this functionality to a "single tag" in their template, well.. that's their choice I guess. Not everyone works around that paradigm though. Best regards, Richard Davey -- http://www.launchcode.co.uk - PHP Development Services "I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them." - Isaac Asimov -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php