[snip] but jay, we have concepts that have been fleshed out. but rather than simply focus on what we percieve to be good, we're also open to ideas/concepts from others... which is why we posted what we did.. [/snip] Aha, why didn't you say this to begin with? Had you said this the response might have been different, but now that you say this red flags go up because it seems a little more disingenuous. And why not put in there that you are looking for folks to put up some sweat equity, an equity that may or may not be valuable when the product(s) roll out? Bruce I am not trying to be a hard-ass here, I was just pointing out that the style in which the original message was delivered had a little smell to it, IYKWIM. [snip] ps. rather than consume any more bandwidth on the list, let's continue this direclty if you have more thoughts/comments.. [/snip] You didn't seem bothered about the bandwidth when originally posting to multiple lists and I think that discussions like these are beneficial for younger developers who might not have gathered the experience that us "old guys" have. Peace... P.S. "It's hard to read." "Why?" "Top posting is bad!" -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php