A bit off topic, but can you tell me which Dell business machine has a serial port? model? I need a better machine for xp, but I need at least one and preferably two serial ports. Thanks. 73 Butch Bussen wa0vjr open Node 3148 Las Vegas On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, Trevor Astrope wrote: > John, what I said is there is no advantage to having speakup in the kernel if > it cannot support serial synths on modern computers and I stand by my > statement that most modern computers do not come with serial ports. I know > there is a Dell business machine that does, but these are the exception, not > the rule and are also much more expensive. > > Basically, my point is speakup needs to support external serial ports and/or > usb serial ports going forward or it loses any advantage it has of being in > the kernel. If software speech is the only option for the majority of > computers, than there is really no point of speakup being in the kernel. > > Feel free to disagree, but I think my statements are accurate and you will > find that over time you will find fewer and fewer machines with built-in > serial ports, as usb was intended to replace rs232 serial ports and this is > happening today, although I do agree it isn't totally complete. > > On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, John G. Heim wrote: > >> I just think you are over stating your case. I'm sure the speakup >> developers would love to support USB. But your original comment was >> that speakup doesn't support modern motherboards -- which is just totally >> untrue. You also said that having speakup in the kernel has "no >> advantage". Also untrue. I don't have a problem with your offereing the >> suggestion that speakup be modified to support USB hardware synths. I just >> think you shouldn't exaggerate the problems. After all, look at the >> subject line of this thread, "Main advantages of SBL over Speakup." If >> we're going to compare sbl and speakup, lets be fair about it. >> >> You made it sound like speakup is already obsolete. And that's just not >> true. Really, it seems to me to be a fairly small niche you are in. We >> both agree that most servers have serial ports, right? So your problem is >> that you have a desktop with no serial port but you have to have speech >> right away during boot? Why can't you just use software speech on your >> desktop? In fact, I'm unclear as to why it is so important to you that the >> workstations you support have hardware synth speech. As I said, all of the >> PCs in my department have serial ports (literally 100s of machines) but >> when I have to do support, I just use software speech. I'm not going to >> drag my hardware speech synth around with me unless I have to. Its so much >> easier just to grap a USB headset and fire up software speech. >> >> Actually, some years ago, I posted a message to this list about how you >> could modify your udev rules to recognize when your USB headset is plugged >> into a machine and have it start software speech. Each USB device has a >> unique serial number and you can write a udev rule to run a script to >> start speech when a device with a specific serial number is plugged in. So >> its possible to sit down at a PC at the login prompt, plug in your USB >> headset, and login with speech. >> >> ---- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor Astrope" <astrope at tabbweb.com> >> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." >> <speakup at braille.uwo.ca> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 1:09 PM >> Subject: Re: Main advantages of SBL over Speakup >> >> >> John, yes I do manage servers and I do agree that having speakup in the >> kernel is immensely important if you have a serial port and synth. >> >> Perhaps it is different where you are, but where I live, desktops with >> serial ports are extremely rare. The only ones I managed to find were some >> low end Acers. I also found some business machines with serial ports, but >> they are twice the cost for about half the performance as a consumer >> desktop machine and we don't buy them where I work. >> >> Like Kelly mentioned earlier today, I also do not install speakup in the >> kernels of the servers I manage, but in the machine I use to manage the >> servers. >> >> So, I respectfully disagree with you about the availability of serial >> ports in modern desktop machines and I stand by my statement that speakup >> as a kernel-level speech system will become less relevant over time unless >> it can support external serial ports and usb serial ports. In my opinion, >> this is where speakup development should be focused, as more and more >> people will face this issue as they upgrade their machines. But I am not a >> speakup developer, so I have no influence on the direction it takes. I can >> only offer my opinion, which I have stated several times on this list and >> I can only hope that speakup developers agree with it and take up the >> challenge. >> >> In the meantime, I do have a job to do and I will need to decide whether I >> continue using speakup with software synth, which will make my job more >> difficult or use something else like orca or a mac, which still won't >> solve the problem of having access to early kernel messages, but may give >> me more flexability going forward. >> >> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010, John G. Heim wrote: >> >> > Well, perhaps its a minor point but plenty of modern computers have >> > serial >> > ports. I've never seen a server that didn't have a serial port. In fact, >> > except for laptops, I have yet to see a computer that doesn't have a >> > serial >> > port. That includes the 200 or so desktop units we have where I work. >> > Even >> > the machine I built myself has a serial port. >> > >> > It certainly is a huge over statement to say that having speakup in the >> > kernel has no advantage. If you manage servers like I do, having >> > speakup in >> > the kernel is just about the most important thing there is for a screen >> > reader. I don't really care that much about what happens after the >> > machine is >> > booted. About the only time I need a run time screen reader is if >> > something >> > is wrong with networking. But mostly, I can admin these machines >> > remotely >> > after they boot. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor Astrope" >> > <astrope at tabbweb.com> >> > To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." >> > <speakup at braille.uwo.ca> >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:09 PM >> > Subject: Re: Main advantages of SBL over Speakup >> > >> > >> > Samuel, do you mean there is no kernel convention for accessing serial >> > ports or there is no speakup support for accessing serial ports >> > according >> > to kernel conventions? >> > >> > It would be really great if speakup could use ttyS# devices, so speakup >> > would work with modern motherboards that do not have built-in serial >> > ports. The way I see it is speakup can only use software speech on >> > modern >> > computers, so unless it can access external serial ports or usb serial >> > ports, there really is no advantage to speakup being in the kernel so >> > far >> > as I can tell... >> > >> > On Tue, 9 Feb 2010, Samuel Thibault wrote: >> > >> > > Bill Cox, le Tue 09 Feb 2010 14:23:25 -0500, a ?crit : >> > > > I hear that it doesn't follow kernel >> > > > programming conventions, for example in how it interfaces to the COM >> > > > ports. >> > > >> > > Yes, because no such thing exists (yet). >> > > >> > > Samuel >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Speakup mailing list >> > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca >> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Speakup mailing list >> > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca >> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >> > > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Speakup mailing list >> > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca >> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >> > >> > >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Speakup mailing list >> > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca >> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Speakup mailing list >> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >> >> >
