*SNIP* They act as if the underlying OS can be taken for granted. *SNIP most important statement of that last post. unfortunately, the media do exactly that. why? because that's what microsoft want us all to do. I use to think that it took a very clever person to code a virus for windows. however, I see that I was wrong. all it takes is a few well known holes a bit of trial and error, some vb code or if you're really tgame, some assembly code, a means of delivery, and you got yourself one bad assed virus. the media should question the developers and what they're doing. they should question why so many worms/trojans/viri are getting in. they should ask who's responsible!? and I would answer, a mixture of developers and sysadmins alike. it is up to the community as a whole to weed out and rid ourselves of bugs, viri trojans exploits and other security holes. until we do that, worms, viri, and trojans are just gonna propergate like they always have. the real problem here is apathy. mixed with a bit of ignorance and down right short sightedness on the part of our friends in redmond. it's going to take some doing but we'll get there. -- Shaun Oliver "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!" EMAIL: shaun_oliver at optusnet.com.au ICQ: 76958435 YAHOO: blindman01_2000 MSN: blindman_2001 at hotmail.com AIM: captain nemo 200 IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666 IRCNICK: blindman CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld #audiofile #mauisun