*SNIP* Was it Redhat that acquired AFB or was it the other way around? *SNIP* here's my $0.2 worth on the subject. janina, I've normally seen your side of the argument a good deal of the time. and each time you've provided what I would consider reasonable arguments. not that everyone else agrees with them though, and even I don't agree with all of them. however, when one starts to make personal attacks on people suggesting the possibility of their hearing voices, and how dare you pick on my beloved red hat, and shooting off your mouth, or in this case, keyboard calls into question your competency as an advocate for people with visual impairments. there's no need for such attacks on this list and yes, even I'm guilty of it from time to time. however, that doesn't excuse your actions in previous posts to this list on this matter. save your personal attacks for your partner in heated discussions or arguments. let's keep it real people, we're in the business of helping. and let's help where we can however we can whenever we can. like kirk says, why be helpful when you are not. thank you for listening to my rantings. -- Shaun Oliver "if macOS is for the computer illiterate, then windoze is for the computer masochists" EMAIL: shaun_oliver at optusnet.com.au ICQ: 76958435 YAHOO: blindman01_2000 MSN: blindman_2001 at hotmail.com AIM: captain nemo 200