On Friday 11 January 2008 00:33:13 CityK wrote: > As many of you know, I'm working towards a merger of the two > subsystem's wiki's, as it just seems to be a logical step in regards > to > informational purposes. > > But, for a good while now, there has been something else that has > struck me as being another very logical step towards providing > general improvement around here. Specifically, after having seen an > increased frequency of "dvb-related" posts on the v4l list, and vice > versa, as well as the large number of such mis-postings commonly > entertained on the two #irc channels, it has spurred me into > thinking/believing that a change on both of these fronts is required. > Here is what I suggest: > > - merge/consolidate the and [video4linux-list] into one > "[LinuxTV-users]" list > > - that a separate, but totally open and transparent, > "[LinuxTV-devel]" list be created for the express purpose of housing > v4l and dvb subsystem development discussions ... Now some might say > "keep the subsystem's discussions separate!", which is fine - i.e. we > could simply create, for example, "[LinuxTV-v4l- devel]" and > "[LinuxTV-dvb-devel]" ... although, in my assessment, given that > there is a low amount of traffic in these regards (i.e. actual > development discussion, as opposed to end user problems and > troubleshooting), I'm not sure that the creation of separate "devel" > lists is necessarily warranted ...discussions placed on a single > "[LinuxTV-devel]" list could easily be made to distinguish the topic > coverage by simply using a "v4l:" or" dvb:" prefix in the subject > header. But again, if distinct development discussion lists are > deemed more desirable (for whatever bona fide argument) then that is > perfectly acceptable. I agree that a unified users and devel mailinglist is desirable. And should it become necessary to split off dvb or v4l specific mailinglists then we can always do that later. > - the maintainer list .. well, it can either stay as is, or perhaps > it might be logical to wind it up and move its operations into the > unified devel list (or separate devel lists if that is deemed more > desirable) ... there may be perfectly good reasons (that I'm unaware > of or overlooking) for keeping it as is, so its not particularly > important ... but in the context of creating a "[LinuxTV-devel]" > list, it seems that having a separate maintainer list just for patch > and pull requests would be kind of redundant and better served on the > "devel" list as well I think it is useful to keep this as is IMHO. This way the pull requests and maintenance issues do not drown in the other traffic. > > One factor that perhaps adds some weight to this argument/proposal is > the diminishing importance that analogue TV related issues are going > to hold over time ( as more and more countries switch to digital > transmission systems). Of course, the light won't go out for > analogue TV for a number of years to come, but I think that users > familiar to the lists will have already noticed the trend towards dvb > related topics on the v4l list. v4l is not about analog TV in particular, it is basically for everything video related that is not a DVB device or a graphics card. This includes webcams, MPEG encoders/decoders, digital video streaming, among others. While analog TV will diminish in importance (in some parts of the world) that does not mean that v4l will become less important. > Some of the other "pro" arguments to back this proposal are as > follows: > > - ease and convenience for the end user (i.e one list, and not two > separate lists) ... quite frankly, the typical end user does not > understand or make the distinction that v4l is an analogue related > subsystem -- its all video for linux for them -- both dvb or analogue > questions ... similarly, I have doubts that all that many end users > really grasp that dvb is in relation to a digital subsystem. I agree. > - in general, I like the unified branding that "LinuxTV" permits ... > its about TV on Linux based computer systems ... its name should be > pretty straight forward in conveying that fact (at least, it strikes > me as being such) ... and it avoids the end user having to figure > whether they need to post on v4l or on linux-dvb lists ... quite > frankly, "v4l" is a poor descriptor -- if I were a novice, I'd be > more inclined to think that it was about video cards as opposed to > being an analogue capture subsystem...in these regards, "dvb" > certainly isn't much better in conveying that its dealing with the > reception or capture of (digital) television I disagree. As stated above, v4l really deals with video streams in one way or another. Analog TV is a fairly small part of that. So I personally think that v4l is a pretty good descriptor of this subsystem. (Although there are some oddities like radio and RDS devices). To keep in sync with v4l-dvb-maintainer I would suggest v4l-dvb-users and v4l-dvb-devel. > - turning to the #irc channels, the same arguments hold, except that > the dvb related channel isn't even named as such...rather it carries > the "linuxtv" name ... now, I know that the channel topic headers > will describe the type of discussion related to that channel, but > honestly, next to no one heeds any attention to that...so it is of my > opinion that the situation is even less then clear for the end > user....in my opinion, its time to make a single channel function for > all end users .... if so desired even two channels -- > "#LinuxTV-users" (or even just usurp the existing #linuxtv channel > into becoming multifunctional) and possibly another for developers if > they so desire (i.e. "#LinuxTV-dvel") Well, I'd choose #v4l-dvb, but otherwise I agree. I never really think of this as a 'linuxtv' project because I always thought of it as v4l and dvb subsystems and linuxtv being just the domain name. > In short, we can: > - help alleviate end user confusion > - improve the lines of communication (i.e end users will only need > approach one list/#irc for their TV or capturing need, regardless of > whether their questions/problems are analogue or dvb related) > - provide a greater user pool looking at all the end user problems > - capitalize on a unified branding (i.e. "LinuxTV") > - help promote a unified front/effort, and put an end to the > segmentation .... something that I feel is needlessly too common of > an occurrence in respect to Linux ..... (nine hundred and ninety-nine > largely non differing distros being a prime example) > > ... and perhaps some other good reasons that I'm just not thinking > about right now. Agreed. Regards, Hans _______________________________________________ linux-dvb mailing list linux-dvb@xxxxxxxxxxx http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb
