On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 8:06 AM, James Stone <jamesmstone@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> I had a quick mess around with a bus with TAP reverb, and only 1 >>> reverb.. It gave the track a more "live" sound to my ears - more >>> real maybe, but lacking some of the dynamics of a studio >>> recording.. any idea where I am going wrong? >>A >> Absolutely impossible for me to tell from a simple email. Possibly you >> are expecting too much at this point in the process? Maybe it's real. >> We can talk through it, for weeks. I like this stuff. It hardly gets >> discussed around here. I am all for more. > > That's really great. Thanks for taking the time with this. > >> OK, breaking it down, how does the room compare to your studio >> experience? > > More bunker-ish, less studio-like! Room has reflective concrete walls, > I am using the PA mixer to mix the mics, Although turned down very > low, there is also the PA output coming back into the room!! (is there > a way around this without buying my own mixing board?? - I guessed > that disconnecting the speakers from the PA might not be very > advisable for the health of the amplifier??) > >> How do the mics compare? > > I have a condenser mic (Samson C01) which I could not use because of > the feedback from the PA. Everything was recorded with 1 or 2 Shure > sm58s > > Don't assume that inexpensive >> mics will give an inexpensive sound. Don't assume that any personal >> inexperience means you must do worse than an experienced studio tech. >> But do understand it's harder for you at home to approach the results >> you'll get recording at Electric Ladyland with someone who's made 100 >> albums. Just keep at it. >> >> As for reverbs, they all sound different and it really takes some >> experimentation to find ones that you like. Jumping ahead, I head a >> LOT of things going on in your studio recording. If you're trying to >> duplicate that in the work you're doing at home then that will take >> some work to write down what the major components are in the sound and >> then working on each one , one by one. >> >>> >>> How about compression? Is it OK to run 2 compressors in parallel >>> like the C* and Satan Maximizer, or is it just a waste of >>> resources? >> >> Well, I'd want to ask why you're using a compressor? I have a *strong* >> impression why, listening to the mp3, but I don't know what your >> current recording sounds like. (It is different, correct?) >> >> My initial guess, and it's just a guess, is that you my be falling >> prey to the two things most people do : >> >> 1) tracking WAY too loud. >> 2) Using boost instead of cut in your EQ. > > Yes. I think you are right here. > >> >> >> OK, this girl can sing, and I really shouldn't call her a girl 'cause >> everything about her sound was full grown woman. Great voice. Sexy. >> Confident. I did find myself wishing she really got edgy or even a bit >> mean somewhere in the mix, but that can be in some other song. Loved >> the line about lemon bitters. The playing was competent and fit the >> song well. Very present. Not compressed. The engineer used positioning >> tricks, not volume, to help bring the guitars forward at different >> times. Chris Isaak comes to mind for me. >> >> The overall tracking here sounds pretty clean to me, but the mix >> doesn't. It's WAY too loud on my system. It must be 6-9db louder than >> anything else I compared it with. Maybe that's just the way the mp3 >> got made. Keep in mind that it's VERY important to make comparisons at >> the same volume. I hear a lot of clipping and clicking, even when I >> turn it down, so that's not good at all. > > Hmm.. I certainly heard some clicks that were there from the original > studio recording (on the vocal track IIRC). These have been made > louder by the mixing/mastering process. Is there anything that can be > done about these kinds of problems (assuming it's not possible to > re-record a better version)? > >> I get the impression that your first issue is tracking. > > Definitely, but I have to do the best I can with less than ideal > equipment - the main problem being how to mix down to 2 tracks to > record without a mixer that is not the PA! > > I do also have a cheap microphone amp - so I could make single mic > recordings without using the PA, but this seems less than ideal for > drums!? > >> To me compressors are things I don't use until I have a reason (read >> problem) to use them. Note that most of my stuff is more natural >> jazz/rock/pop. I've done a couple of Big Band CDs for friends. Live >> Big Band is tough and compressors there were necessary during tracking >> to get it on disk. Electronica could be very different. >> >> Barry's Satan whatever is to help create a specific sound. That's >> fine. It might be added later, or used during tracking. Whatever gets >> you the sound on the track you are looking for. >> >> Generally speaking reverb is for me something I try to hold off using >> at all until the MIX gets underway. The longer I listen dry the >> happier I generally am when I finally add it. >> >> I suppose what I'm saying as I run out of energy (I'm sick, bummer for >> me) is that I think you should really focus now on tracking your >> guitar or recording her vocal, and getting just that track to have a >> good sound. I understand that sometimes vocalist require reverb to do >> their job, but as the engineer you want to focus on how the voice >> sounds. Send the reverb to her headphones, not your speakers as much >> as possible, Are you capturing what she sounds like? Is it technically >> good. Play with mic distance, different breath screens, different >> mics. Sit in the room with her while she sings, assuming you're not >> using a booth. Ask her what she thinks of her sound. In my experience >> finding something that works at the track level leads to better mixes, >> and better mixes lead to easier mastering. >> >> And, cut, cut, cut, not boost. >> >> Hope this helps, > > Fantastically useful! > > One thing I was considering, if you are amenable, is to post both > songs in their raw (ardour) form - the first (professional-ish) one > was done in protools, but I have imported individual audio tracks into > ardour and have got pretty much the same sequence as far as I can > tell. The second has all the tracking problems I mentioned - bass > guitar for example, which was recorded by micing the amp in the > low-budget version has some boom where it hits the resonant frequency > of one of the nearby toms! Drums (although recorded with 2 mics only > has one track as the mixer/PA had no pan function!) I would really > appreciate it if you could listen to the raw form and then say how you > would approach them (could repost the mixed versions if you have the > time?) I would find this really educational, but I realise it is > asking quite a lot, so I am happy either way. > > James > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user > Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that running a PA with no speakers is in no way harmful. It is similar to having an electric outlet without anything plugged into it, your real danger is too heavy a current drain (ie. sticking a fork in the electric socket, or a low impedance speaker in a speaker jack that cannot handle that low and impedance). _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list Linux-audio-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
