On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 3:35 PM, James Stone <jamesmstone@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:> On Fri, May 08, 2009 at 11:12:54AM -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:>> James,>> Welcome and best of luck with what you're doing. IMO his is>> completely the right place to ask questions like this.>>>> Thanks Mark!>>>> 2) Learn to use busses and in general limit yourself to a single>> reverb. Try to leave a LOT of headroom in your indivdual track>> recordings as it will reduce the number of limiter and compressors you>> find yourself using overall. Using multiple reverbs will eventually>> lead to a muddy sound as every instrument starts acting like it's in a>> different room. Busses are easy in Ardour, albiet FAR more capable>> than they really should be. That said, you need them and once you>> learn to use them for things like reverb you'll probably be better>> off.>>>> I had a quick mess around with a bus with TAP reverb, and only 1> reverb.. It gave the track a more "live" sound to my ears - more> real maybe, but lacking some of the dynamics of a studio> recording.. any idea where I am going wrong? Absolutely impossible for me to tell from a simple email. Possibly youare expecting too much at this point in the process? Maybe it's real.We can talk through it, for weeks. I like this stuff. It hardly getsdiscussed around here. I am all for more. OK, breaking it down, how does the room compare to your studioexperience? How do the mics compare? Don't assume that inexpensivemics will give an inexpensive sound. Don't assume that any personalinexperience means you must do worse than an experienced studio tech.But do understand it's harder for you at home to approach the resultsyou'll get recording at Electric Ladyland with someone who's made 100albums. Just keep at it. As for reverbs, they all sound different and it really takes someexperimentation to find ones that you like. Jumping ahead, I head aLOT of things going on in your studio recording. If you're trying toduplicate that in the work you're doing at home then that will takesome work to write down what the major components are in the sound andthen working on each one , one by one. >> How about compression? Is it OK to run 2 compressors in parallel> like the C* and Satan Maximizer, or is it just a waste of> resources? Well, I'd want to ask why you're using a compressor? I have a *strong*impression why, listening to the mp3, but I don't know what yourcurrent recording sounds like. (It is different, correct?) My initial guess, and it's just a guess, is that you my be fallingprey to the two things most people do : 1) tracking WAY too loud.2) Using boost instead of cut in your EQ. A big part of managing digital sound is never letting it getoverloaded. you may end up with more background noise, recording athome instead of in a studio, but if you record the tracks loud toovercome the noise, then when you mix them together it gets louder andstarts clipping. to eliminate the clipping you start using compressionand this instills a new sort of distortion to the sound. It's subtle,compared to clipping, but it's distortion and doesn't sound clean andcertainly doesn't sound real. Instead of recording at the top of yourVUs and then having to lower levels and add compression, etc., tryrecording tracks at lower levels and trust that when you put it alltogether 12 tracks at -10db will come out near 0bd, whereas 12 tracksat 0db is a recipe for problems. Using boost in your EQ is the same problem, but only in certainfrequencies. The problem is that it's the most natural thing to do. "Idon't hear as much treble as I want so I raised the 2K band". Betterto lower all the other bands just a little bit to preserve theheadroom. Please note that the these are all guesses. I'd have to listen to thework, probably a few stubs, etc., to hear the different parts, etc. >>> way you want your mix to sound. You don't say much about music style,>> which is cool, but I suggest that one answer doesn't fit Animal>> Collective, Particle, McCoy Tyner and John Mayall, all being bands>> I've listened to in depth this week. Maybe you're doing something>> non-pop/rock and some sort of strange reverb setup makes it work. If>> that's the case then by all means do WHATEVER works!>> Well, our first studio track, which was recorded by a student> engineer in a semi-proper studio on protools, then mixed and> mastered by a professional engineer is here:>> http://www.last.fm/music/kitten+cake>> mp3 here:>> http://drop.io/dont_call_her_baby (password: kc09) OK, this girl can sing, and I really shouldn't call her a girl 'causeeverything about her sound was full grown woman. Great voice. Sexy.Confident. I did find myself wishing she really got edgy or even a bitmean somewhere in the mix, but that can be in some other song. Lovedthe line about lemon bitters. The playing was competent and fit thesong well. Very present. Not compressed. The engineer used positioningtricks, not volume, to help bring the guitars forward at differenttimes. Chris Isaak comes to mind for me. The overall tracking here sounds pretty clean to me, but the mixdoesn't. It's WAY too loud on my system. It must be 6-9db louder thananything else I compared it with. Maybe that's just the way the mp3got made. Keep in mind that it's VERY important to make comparisons atthe same volume. I hear a lot of clipping and clicking, even when Iturn it down, so that's not good at all. >> I would like to get a similar sound with our practice-room> recordings mixed and mastered by me! .... not asking much! :) Any> hints as to how I might approach that kind of sound would be very> much appreciated!>> James OK, I'll probably get banged on for talking nomenclature, but sinceyou used the terms in your title I'll offer for your consideration: 1) Tracking - getting the individual instruments recorded2) Mixing - combining tracks into a song, adding effects, coming upwith a listenable piece of music3) Mastering - the process of consolidating a bunch of different songmixes into a single database to make a CD. Adjusting relative songlevels, balancing EQ between mixes to build a more coherent soundingCD. I get the impression that your first issue is tracking. To me compressors are things I don't use until I have a reason (readproblem) to use them. Note that most of my stuff is more naturaljazz/rock/pop. I've done a couple of Big Band CDs for friends. LiveBig Band is tough and compressors there were necessary during trackingto get it on disk. Electronica could be very different. Barry's Satan whatever is to help create a specific sound. That'sfine. It might be added later, or used during tracking. Whatever getsyou the sound on the track you are looking for. Generally speaking reverb is for me something I try to hold off usingat all until the MIX gets underway. The longer I listen dry thehappier I generally am when I finally add it. I suppose what I'm saying as I run out of energy (I'm sick, bummer forme) is that I think you should really focus now on tracking yourguitar or recording her vocal, and getting just that track to have agood sound. I understand that sometimes vocalist require reverb to dotheir job, but as the engineer you want to focus on how the voicesounds. Send the reverb to her headphones, not your speakers as muchas possible, Are you capturing what she sounds like? Is it technicallygood. Play with mic distance, different breath screens, differentmics. Sit in the room with her while she sings, assuming you're notusing a booth. Ask her what she thinks of her sound. In my experiencefinding something that works at the track level leads to better mixes,and better mixes lead to easier mastering. And, cut, cut, cut, not boost. Hope this helps,Mark_______________________________________________Linux-audio-user mailing listLinux-audio-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
