On Wed, Sep 25, 2024 at 10:18:44AM +1000, Dave Airlie wrote: > > ? nova core, meaning nova rust, meaning vfio depends on rust, doesn't > > seem acceptable ? We need to keep rust isolated to DRM for the > > foreseeable future. Just need to find a separation that can do that. > > That isn't going to happen, if we start with that as the default > positioning it won't get us very far. What do you want me to say to that? We can't have rust in VFIO right now, we don't have that luxury. This is just a fact, I can't change it. If you say upstream has to be rust then there just won't be upstream and this will all go OOT and stay as C code. That isn't a good outcome. Having rust usage actively harm participation in the kernel seems like the exact opposite of the consensus of the maintainer summit. > The core has to be rust, because NVIDIA has an unstable firmware API. > The unstable firmware API isn't some command marshalling, it's deep > down into the depths of it, like memory sizing requirements, base > message queue layout and encoding, firmware init procedures. I get the feeling the vast majorty of the work, and primary rust benefit, lies in the command marshalling. If the init *procedures* change, for instance, you are going to have to write branches no matter what language you use. I don't know, it is just a suggestion to consider. > Now there are maybe some on/off ramps we can use here that might > provide some solutions to bridge the gap. Using rust in the kernel has > various levels, which we currently tie into one place, but if we > consider different longer term progressions it might be possible to > start with some rust that is easier to backport than other rust might > be etc. That seems to be entirely unexplored territory. Certainly if the backporting can be shown to be solved then I have much less objection to having VFIO depend on rust. This is part of why I suggested that a rust core driver could expose the C APIs that VFIO needs with a kconfig switch. Then people can experiment and give feedback on what backporting this rust stuff is actually like. That would be valuable for everyone I think. Especially if the feedback is that backporting is no problem. Yes we have duplication while that is ongoing, but I think that is inevitable, and at least everyone could agree to the duplication and I expect NVIDIA would sign up to maintain the C VFIO stack top to bottom. > The end result though is to have nova core and nova drm in rust, that > is the decision upstream made 6-12 months ago, I don't see any of the > initial reasons for using rust have been invalidated or removed that > warrant revisiting that decision. Never said they did, but your decision to use Rust in Nova does not automatically mean a decision to use Rust in VFIO, and now we have a new requirement to couple the two together. It still must be resolved satisfactorily. Jason
