I’ve previously asked the chairs to make this clear in their introductory slides. Colin > On 21 Jul 2019, at 09:53, Scott O. Bradner <sob@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > sorry, I was confused by the meeting at the IETF - I expect I’m not the only one based on the discussion - maybe the first slide needs to say > > “THIS IS NOT AN IRTF RG” > > Scott > > > >> On Jul 21, 2019, at 9:46 AM, Colin Perkins <csp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> Since the ANRW is an academic conference, we made the decision to follow the usual norms for such events and not require IPR disclosure. >> >> If the work is brought into an IRTF RG, or an IETF WG, then the usual IRTF and IETF IPR disclosure rules apply. >> >> Colin >> >> >>> On 21 Jul 2019, at 09:41, Scott O. Bradner <sob@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>> you made an explicit decision that people can hide their IPR? >>> >>> have fun with that >>> >>> Scott >>> >>>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 9:36 AM, Colin Perkins <csp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> >>>> The ANRW is an academic workshop that happens to be co-located with IETF. We made an explicit decision when starting the workshop, several years ago now, that the Note Well does not apply to it. >>>> >>>> If work is brought from ANRW into either an IRTF RG or an IETF WG, then the Note Well would apply, of course. >>>> >>>> Colin >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 21 Jul 2019, at 08:08, Scott O. Bradner <sob@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ps - I see that ANRW is an IRTF research group - thus https://irtf.org/ipr applies >>>>> (and that says that the IETF rules apply) >>>>> >>>>> Scott >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 8:02 AM, Scott O. Bradner <sob@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> you are entitled to your opinion, of course, but I am speaking as a person who ran the BOF where the specific >>>>>> text "intended to affect the IETF Standards Process” was developed and agreed to as well as a person who >>>>>> edited the specific text - it is my opinion that the BOF (and thus the IETF) intended the rules to apply >>>>>> wherever actions are taken or text developed that are "intended to affect the IETF Standards Process” >>>>>> in particular, IPR disclosure is required if known >>>>>> >>>>>> I have no opinion as to the facts of the specific case of ANRW since I have not been following that >>>>>> >>>>>> Scott >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 7:42 AM, Richard Barnes <rlb@xxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Scott, I think you may be over-stating things a bit. The IETF doesn't get to make universal statements that apply to things out of its remit. For example, there are numerous research conferences that are held on IETF-related technologies -- often with a specific focus on providing helpful input to IETF! -- which are not held under note well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The location of such meetings alongside IETF meetings does not change this fact. AFAICT, ANRW is not covered by Note Well, despite having the explicit goal of "transition[ing] research back into IETF". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The definition of Contribution in 8179 makes this clear from the start: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> """ >>>>>>> "Contribution": any submission to the IETF ... >>>>>>> """ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 7:27 AM Adrian Farrel <adrian@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>> Thanks Scott, that's helpful. >>>>>>> A >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Scott O. Bradner <sob@xxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>> Sent: 21 July 2019 11:24 >>>>>>> To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@xxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>> Cc: IETF Rinse Repeat <ietf@xxxxxxxx> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings >>>>>>> >>>>>>> speaking as co-editor of the ruleset >>>>>>> >>>>>>> see the definition of “Contribution” in RFC 8179 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> basically, the “note well” applies whenever activities that are "intended to >>>>>>> affect the IETF Standards Process” may happen >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2019, at 3:18 PM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Normally [1] when we have a "bar BoF" (also known as a "side meeting") we do >>>>>>>> not apply the terms of the "Note Well" [2]. We have usually considered bar >>>>>>>> BoFs to be outside the IETF because the IETF has no control over who meets >>>>>>>> and drinks. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> However, this time around, the side meetings are somewhat more formal with >>>>>>>> room bookings and projectors and advertisements and so on. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So, does the Note Well apply to these side meetings? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Apologies if I missed an email on this: I sometimes don't focus as much as I >>>>>>>> should. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Adrian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [1] For some practical definition of "normal" >>>>>>>> [2] https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/ >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Read some fairy stories for adults of all ages >>>>>>>> .. Tales from the Wood >>>>>>>> .. More Tales from the Wood >>>>>>>> .. Tales from Beyond the Wood >>>>>>>> .. Tales from the Castle >>>>>>>> Get them on line https://www.feedaread.com/profiles/8604/ >>>>>>>> Or buy a signed copy from me by post >>>>>>>> *** Stop me in the corridor at IETF-105 to get a copy *** >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Colin Perkins >>>> https://csperkins.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Colin Perkins >> https://csperkins.org/ >> >> >> >> > -- Colin Perkins https://csperkins.org/
