Re: Proposed Photography Policy

Michael StJohns <mstjohns@xxxxxxxxxxx> · Fri, 2 Mar 2018 13:04:17 -0500



    Hi Ekr - 

      
      On 3/1/2018 11:01 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote:

    
        . Although we
      
      recognize
        that mistakes will be made, repeated intentional violations
      of
        this policy may
        constitute harassment and could be brought to the attention
      of
        the ombudsteam, per RFC
        7776.
    
    I read through the whole list of comments and I mostly don't have
      a concern with the IETF specifying what the IETF agents will and
      won't do.   But, with respect to this paragraph, my understanding
      of what RFC 7776 means by harassment does not seem to match the
      behavior you're trying to stigmatize here.
    To be clear, I find the "individual" mentioned in other notes on
      this chain annoying at times, but I consider the behavior rude,
      not harassing - and yes, there is a difference.  AFAICT, the act
      of taking my picture in no way 

    
       "has the purpose or
   effect of unreasonably interfering with an individual's participation
   in IETF activities or of creating an environment within the IETF that
   would be intimidating, hostile, or offensive in such a situation."
    And in fact as noted by others - openness in understanding WHO is
      participating in the IETF and documenting those facts is as much a
      part of the IETF as respect for the individuals.  

    
    I also wonder if you've walked this past the lawyers?  I would
      think that maybe freedom of the press rights/arguments for public
      venues would be implicated, and if so, whether the IETF would be
      liable individually or collectively.   

    
    We ran through this somewhat the last time we were in Berlin.  We
      noted that German law had some specific restrictions on
      photography and left it to the photographers to follow the law or
      not.  I would suggest that the policy basically note that we ask
      people to refrain from being rude and that in some venues local
      laws might be more restrictive than other places.   

    
    Threats for sanctions such as you've included are generally not a
      useful solution to what is a ultimately a social problem and not a
      process problem.  That the social problem might not be resolvable
      does not mean we should be playing with the process. 

    
    Later, Mike