----- Original Message ----- From: "John Levine" <johnl@xxxxxxxxx> To: <ietf@xxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 1:23 AM > In article <CE39F90A45FF0C49A1EA229FC9899B0537173A17@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > you write: > >Tom, > > > >Absent providing any other data points, how does this tie in with DMARC doing damage? > > Google's "p=reject" makes mailing list mail from Google people disappear. But you knew that. > > On the other hand, it is true that they've been publishing p=reject > for quite a while so it's not obvious why some mail provider would > just start paying attention now. Thank you, John, those are indeed my thoughts. I am putting two and two together and getting a somewhat larger number and so am fishing for ideas. I wonder if the IETF e-mail system has been changed in a way that we are not aware of that triggers my ESP. Or my ESP has made an unannounced change - well, it rarely makes an announced change:-( I attach headers below from an e-mail that I unjunked and downloaded with POP and notice the dmarc=fail among the masses of X- Authentication-Results: spf=pass (sender IP is 4.31.198.44) smtp.mailfrom=ietf.org; btconnect.com; dkim=pass (signature was verified) header.d=ietf.org;btconnect.com; dmarc=fail action=oreject header.from=google.com; and below that is one I received without hassle in March 2017 which said Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com so is it as simple as the IETF updating their software to provide more comprehensive Authentication-Results: which now causes my ESP to junk the e-mail? As I said, the change is abrupt and comprehensive and happened some time in the past week or so. I noticed it on Friday although had become aware of the disjointed nature of the IPv6 threads some time before that. Tom Petch > R's, > John ================================================= Received: from DB5PR07MB1560.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:c577::47) by DB5PR07MB1560.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com with HTTPS via DB5PR09CA0121.EURPRD09.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:26:32 +0000 Received: from AM5PR0701CA0054.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:203:2::16) by DB5PR07MB1560.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:5bc7::10) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1178.5; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:26:31 +0000 Received: from VE1EUR02FT039.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:f400:7e06::207) by AM5PR0701CA0054.outlook.office365.com (2603:10a6:203:2::16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1178.5 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:26:31 +0000 Authentication-Results: spf=pass (sender IP is 4.31.198.44) smtp.mailfrom=ietf.org; btconnect.com; dkim=pass (signature was verified) header.d=ietf.org;btconnect.com; dmarc=fail action=oreject header.from=google.com; Received-SPF: Pass (protection.outlook.com: domain of ietf.org designates 4.31.198.44 as permitted sender) receiver=protection.outlook.com; client-ip=4.31.198.44; helo=mail.ietf.org; Received: from mail.ietf.org (4.31.198.44) by VE1EUR02FT039.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.13.138) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.1143.11 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:26:30 +0000 Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1830128BC8; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 10:26:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ietf.org; s=ietf1; t=1497115576; bh=/Ho/FUrKODC/id0i8RCq7vODJ4+lKB3Zce3OoSd8qV0=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:References:To:List-Id: List-Unsubscribe:List-Archive:List-Post:List-Help:List-Subscribe: Cc; b=lYEsZnwDDAOtb86vlJcnUJI+55tDicUPys8Y5JlS0FUVGIueqMWn/AVi798n5rp7D dPtMky8jNfaDdIilvAVXH3NLAhCleiEEA7jlPcby2SmOKyKPHxf4/3ix3G65JlRLR1 JhjcyXz9vy9qVOfaPLA7SqOLHxf2+5Qtgfm78bbQ= X-Original-To: ietf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Delivered-To: ietf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77650127076 for <ietf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 10:26:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nJoNT6UKZx7J for <ietf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 10:26:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x235.google.com (mail-pg0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CC67127ABE for <ietf@xxxxxxxx>; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 10:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x235.google.com with SMTP id k71so34574644pgd.2 for <ietf@xxxxxxxx>; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 10:26:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=ZtGTPVNvFOUzYfWK8go3UQ72lUnqON4f8m60bYv6k4I=; b=BJ11Os8/GrHAUniJQNH47dCojHjE5bSsQEXCXNMhHIvuuHmbtmyuDMPdAW6SbYEXE4 VQveikwBtiMZRA3t459N5STf8sdLALORzhQvwqso5l4pTQgvduGCjiX/hdDpR+TIYYyy m9qWy/zxDcdadmcqxVe+0p1QeMqCe4B6wO5N3HfR0ZkGXuowxeKk9bvay1LswKO+H/hg eFa1chKPxNI3NtpHlvCaikWREe22eGmRCYQxrdkZfVH/PF4+xzAaKLymbFJZryZNtNho hPd4cKxX1cymUqV4as4cvyS0a5+GdQwMZjuSwzBl8obpn3eJPi+JtelcotByaaNvYjAw XfYg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=ZtGTPVNvFOUzYfWK8go3UQ72lUnqON4f8m60bYv6k4I=; b=K3oZxjl0oqinHek/g/pQC1D5XnxR/fEmlBGuMnBs3CZsYrmLJNSuU020al7XxSqzht TIarYc7kklmSnScDYy68QFF4Q3hvI5HtIRm3cXvNLGgeMzImtq5ZCrwhWWZJziwou0dv wlYdpCVQcESr5IuyKls0q95DV5pjdPFZcsuUBxL2ylQfSx4x3rlRt3kb8uwVPLMc84TQ zvTvDAr/jmaF4t22vLijvMG/UkvhsKSsLG82k/1CnRwhnxrN/kKq2jF5AL3m1LSg10Io rJv51TO6lSPhUseiN9VnadPye8yN4qvwY9gc7A16cXQgUKOeq70IeP5Sa1YpU4ZSIIfo TKBA== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcDyy8FVbEWoQYuWY5UK5oqBiSlc6Ss4cUwnExvbBnHYrSZEEjoh WvDzkP6ZZn1qwLa7A8QmRA== X-Received: by 10.98.80.140 with SMTP id g12mr17181420pfj.146.1497115566443; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 10:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.76] (c-98-248-223-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. 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