On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Ted Lemon <mellon@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
The problem with a larger virtual interim is that it doesn't replace an IETF, and so you're adding workload but not subtracting any workload. I don't see the point in that.
It clocks those working groups at a higher rate. Many people find it easier to prioritize IETF work when there are specific deadlines or a loss of face if work isn't done.
While the IETF determines consensus on mailing lists, there has been a strong tendency in the last decade to focus on the physical meetings for the next deadline, to have necessary talks, and so on. I personally feel that it is important to push back on this.
Discussing an issue on the mailing list suffers from people losing state on the issue being talked about - for instance:
Day 1: Alice reviews a draft and posts her review with a technical point to consider. Bob, an author, sees the email but is
in the midst of a day-job priority.
Day 4: Bob reads the email, rereads the draft section, and suggests a fix. Alice sees email, but is focused on day-job.
Day 8: Alice refreshes her memory and responds with a point that wasn't handled.
etc.
A benefit of virtual interims is that folks try to be up to speed and that conversational back and forth can happen.
We do the same thing - aspirationally - on WGLCs on the mailing lists where a two-week period is set aside to focus on a
particular draft.
Regards,
Alia
On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Tim Chown <tjc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:On 12 Apr 2016, at 12:49, Ted Lemon <mellon@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Agree about Buenos Aires. We already do excellent virtual interims--I think if your standard for whether we can do a virtual IETF is that virtual interims work, we are already there.I think that if we want to test this idea, what we need to do is designate some future IETF virtual _now_, and then start preparing, rather than say "oh, we should do a virtual" and then dither about when we might be ready. We will never be so ready that a virtual IETF feels identical to an in-person IETF, so let's just abandon that idea and get started on making a virtual IETF that, while different, is still a success.Sounds interesting, if something of a big leap to attempt. Is a larger wholly virtual, multiple WG interim meeting a next step then?Btw where do we get the virtual T-shirt? ;)TimOn Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 7:43 AM, Tim Chown <tjc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Hi,
To minimise the chances of a ‘Singapore’ happening again it would seem prudent to
a) re-use previous successful meeting venues for the bulk of our meetings (say, every 5 in 6 meetings); this is one criteria for meeting selection as it stands anyway; that list might include venues like Prague, Berlin, Vancouver, etc.; we’d need to be clear in what ‘successful’ means - the meeting feedback forms provide one such mechanism;
b) be transparent at an early stage about where new venues might be, whether by country or city, so there is a fair chance for people to give feedback; of course, how such feedback is weighed is an open question, but at least it would be there, and the IAOC can then make a decision ‘eyes wide open’.
In such a system, Buenos Aires would have been a ‘1 in 6’ venue. In that light, I’d note that many people have said how much they enjoyed Buenos Aires as a meeting place. And while the IAOC probably feel rather down over the comments about Singapore, they should be praised for going out on something of a limb in making the Buenos Aires selection. (And I’d add that the enthusiasm and helpfulness of the LACNIC hosts was also fantastic.)
In terms of virtual meetings, I’d suggest we try to hold more interim WG meetings, some completely virtually, and learn how to make those better. If we can regularly hold good quality wholly virtual interim meetings, then we can consider whether the same technology might be used for a larger meeting.
Tim
> On 12 Apr 2016, at 00:54, Ted Lemon <mellon@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> While I do not think it's true that we can entirely get away without doing in-person meetings, I do agree with you that we can do better at doing remote meetings. Perhaps we should let this unfortunate event drive us to make the attempt.
>
> If we were to attempt such a thing, how do you think it would work?