On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal) <glenn.deen@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Thanks Ray for clarifying things. I know that setting this meeting up has > been a lot of effort due to currency problems, locations not wanting to > make long term commitments to the iETF, etc. > > And to be fair, YOU and IAOC DID warn us that rooms would be limited at > the Hilton. > > You're also right that BA is more like Dublin, as I attended both ICANN > Dublin and ICANN BA this past year, and the ICANN attendees where very > much split up between hotels. In both places it worked well for ICANN > and they are 2-3 times as big as an IETF. Though I suspect they are much > less sensitive to event pricing as the IETF is. The fact they don't > charge any attendance fee, reflects the difference in funding level ICANN > enjoys. Attendees were spread out between many hotels in BA and it > seemed to work, at least I didn't hear much in the way of complaints. > There also seemed to be a lot of good hotels in the area at different > price points. > > In BA taxi's as John L. noted are cheap, though they can be hard to find > at times, and they didn't use Uber (there was some other taxi app that I > need remember before we go down there). That should hopefully make it > much easier for people not at the venue hotel to move between their hotels > and the venue both quickly, comfortably, and safely. > > > Unfortunately for the IETF, there are a lot of competing large groups all > looking for meeting space+rooms, and it isn't likely to get better for a > while. Which is good because it means the economy is continuing to improve > and that will help support more participation, but it's bad because it > means pressure to pay more to make the IETF more attractive than other > groups, and a lot of those other groups are playing with much bigger > budgets. > > Spending more isn't necessarily the only option, and it would change the > IETF. Sure we could be more attractive, and get massive room blocks if we > just spent a lot more money, but one of things I think that helps the IETF > continue to be so successful, is that it's run as a pretty lean ship. It > has let the IETF continue during tough years like 2008-2010 without making > major changes. People should look at the IAOC's presentation on the IETF > budget, there is a lot of good info there. Compared to nearly every > organization of it's size, the IETF is run very effectively on a lean > budget, THAT"S A GOOD THING and something that I know Ray and IAOC work > hard to maintain. Thank you BTW. At the same time: We enjoy > comparatively cheap registration fees compared to most other week long > technical events. PLUS We get great cookies and even ice cream at breaks, > and cokes at breakfast! PLUS We have solid sponsors who have treated us to > great socials. PLUS BEST OF ALL: We get great meeting rooms and the best > network and wifi anywhere. So like many things, all could be fixed by > spending more $$$$, but that's the easy way out, but not necessarily the > best way. > > > > > A couple of suggestions that may alleviate some of the frustrations: > > 1. Can an weekly update count of block rooms and nights available be > maintained, perhaps weekly on the IETF meeting site? This would help > people making reservations > know when they can skip trying a hotel because it is sold out. I > know this is hard to keep 100% current, because some people will book & > then cancel, but any info is helpful. > > 2. Is it cost feasible to run some sort of shuttle between the venue and > the overflow hotels? It may not be, but it would help with the distance > and safety concerns. > > 3. A longer term solution is to perhaps increase our bargaining power by > building longer term relations with a few locations. I see that we do some > of this already, perhaps formalizing it might be an option. > > So instead of spending more $$$, one solution might be to change from > having such a wide variety of places we hold meetings to having a small > set of locations, which have hotels which will give us enough space, > including nearby overflow hotels, and good meeting space. That way we > could build multi-year relationships with individual venues and hotels. > > We could still do the 1:1:1 rotation, but with perhaps 2 or 3 favored > locations in each of the 1:1:1 regions. Having a couple in each region > gives us a fall back if something isn't available and a better negotiating > position. > > This might look like: Vancouver/Japan/Honolulu/? for AP, > Berlin/Paris/Prague/? for EU and San Diego/Vancouver/Boston/Philadelphia/? > for NA. > +1 for these suggestions. I think IEEE 802 does this type of business. Their policy is to keep people in the same hotel, by providing registration fee discount up to $300. That means going to the same places every two years or so. That's the price you pay, there is no silver bullet. Behcet > > > -glenn > > > > On 12/16/15, 3:24 PM, "Ray Pelletier" <rpelletier@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > >>Glenn, >> >>> On Dec 16, 2015, at 12:54 PM, Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal) >>><glenn.deen@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>> Q- Whatąs the room block size we are getting at the recent venues >>> compared to what we got at previous ones like Vancouver, or Berlin? >> >>There are many hotels in Buenos Aires but they do not have many rooms. >> >>When we announced on 10 December that registration would open on 16 >>December >>we said: >> >>Registration and hotel reservations for IETF 95 in Buenos Aires will >>open at 1500 UTC Wednesday, December 16. Hotel reservations will include >>the headquarters hotel and the contracted overflow hotels available >>at that time. >> >>Because hotels in Buenos Aires have a limited number of guest rooms, >>the IETF has been negotiating contracts with ten hotels. Hotels not >>available on December 16 will be announced when available. >> >>On 16 December we said: >> >>1. Hilton Buenos Aires (Headquarters Hotel, block of 300 rooms) >>2. Holiday Inn Express Puerto Madero (30 rooms) >>3. Sheraton Buenos Aires (140 rooms available) >>4. InterContinental Buenos Aires (150 rooms) >>5. Sheraton Libertador Hotel (70 rooms) >> >>Buenos Aires is not Vancouver, Berlin, London, Paris or San Francisco. >>It's more like Dublin, if you recently attended the ICANN conference >>there. >> >>> >>> Q - Are hotels artificially limiting availability of the IETF block >>>by >>> only releasing parts of it to the web booking? >>> Iąve seen hotels do this for other events. While the whole block >>> maybe 500 rooms, they release them in 50 room blocks as the >>> reservation block fills. This creates the lucky 10th caller >>> scenario, where if you hit it at just the right time you win. >> >>That's not the case here, or anywhere we have negotiated agreements. >> >>We strive to contract for 600 on a peak night at the so-called >>headquarter's hotel, >>but it depends on where we are. If we are in an area surrounded by >>hotels, and >>at lower price points, we might contract for 400 on a peak night, and >>overflow >>hotels for another 200 - 300 rooms on peak to get 780 rooms on peak. >> >>Typically if we don't get our target room block it's because there's >>another group >>at the hotel, or sometimes it's because the hotel is concerned about the >>risk >>of setting aside 70 - 90% for a group they've never done business with. >>This concern >>is also typically reflected in the cancellation provisions for guest >>rooms they will >>sign up to, and/or when they start cutting back the number of rooms in >>the block. >>All of which is evident in our first meeting in Latin America and Buenos >>Aires. >> >>For those who managed to make a reservation outside the IETF block, but >>at a >>higher price, we are trying to get you in the block at the IETF rate. >> >>Another 4 or so IETF contracted hotels are in the works and will be >>announced >>as soon as they are ready. >> >>Ray >> >> >>> >>> -glenn >>> >>> >> >