On Jun 10, 2015, at 5:58 PM, Michael StJohns <mstjohns@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > 1) Is my description of the IETF process reasonably close to reality? E.g. does the consensus process contribute to "Standardization by Combat"? No. It makes it difficult for people to get what they want without winning on the merits, at least in principle, and the desire to get what we want without winning on the merits is what leads to this combativeness you are referring to. > 3) If my description is correct, can the process be changed without changing the fundamental nature of the IETF? I would argue that the current move in the direction of less combative discourse is a fundamental change to how the IETF works, and it is a good change. The fact that combative discourse ever produces an outcome that rewards those who engage in it is a very serious process failure.