Another possiblity is "Trip Insurance" ... never having had to face a visa issue, I've not read the details, but some policies I"ve read seem to say you can get a refund for any trip canceled by a cause one can't control. On Tue, 11 Nov 2014, John C Klensin wrote: > > > --On Monday, November 10, 2014 17:57 -1000 Fernando Gont > <fernando@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > >... > >> Do airlines give full refunds if you don't get a VISA, I > >> doubt it. > > > > Not at all. > > Not unless one buys fully refundable tickets, of course - see > below. > > >... > > IIRC, in most cases, what they require is an > > itinerary/reservation rather than a ticket. > > If a reservation is required, it can be almost equivalent to > requiring a ticket, since many airlines won't hold a reservation > for a cheap/ refundable ticket for very long without buying the > ticket. "Not very long" can be as short as hours. Sometimes, > one can buy a reservation hold for a longer period (72 hours, a > week, ...) but that price, while much lower that than of a > ticket, is typically non-refundable if one does not end up > buying the ticket (and sometimes even if one does). > > > The problem here is that, as you note, you have two options: > > > > 1) Buy the ticket prior to getting the visa -- with the risk > > of not getting it in time and hence wasting the ticket/money, > > or, > > > > 2) Wait till you get the visa before buying the ticket -- at > > which point the ticket prices can be insane. > > (3) Buy a fully-refundable ticket, whose advance-purchase price > may or may not be significantly lower than late purchase, > "Insane" prices but will certainly be a lot more than the > non-refundable ones you refer to in (1). > > > All the above sad, I should say that, as far as > > central/south-americans are concerned, e.g. Europe tends to be > > way more friendly than North America: I can travel anywhere in > > Europe (except Russia, I think) without a visa... but need a > > visa for US and Canada. > > Unfortunately, generalizing from any given country or regional > experience is not helpful. As an example, a few central/south > american countries reciprocate US and/or Canada visa > requirements and procedures, not only requiring visas, but > pulling the same "we will not formally turn you down, but may > keep your application in a 'processing' state until the time of > the meeting or other event, or at least the plausible airfare > window, has passed". I speak from experience, having had > Brazilian and Chinese visa applications timed out despite > allowing lots of application time. > > Also note that there are country pairs in which the destination > country may be very relaxed about tourist visas (or waivers for > tourists) but may require formal visas for business or meeting > attendance. A subset of them do make an effort to keep track > and react very harshly to someone entering as a tourist and then > doing business/ professional stuff. One thing I think no one > wants is to have to answer a future "have you ever been deported > from a country or denied entry because of visa or immigration > violations" question with "yes". > > Generalizations are _very_ risky. > > Michael's conclusions are, IMO, the correct ones. I would > restate them as: > > (1) Do not experiment with November meetings. Pick places where > we at least know what we are getting into. > > (2) Do not pick locations that are known for being tourist > destinations -- they can make consular officials nervous in ways > that locations where no sane person would go except on business > do not... and nervousness often results in visa delays. > > (3) Set things up so that people have _lots_ of time for dealing > with the slowest and more conservative of processes. That > probably includes not only getting our invitation letters out > early, but having experts design them for maximum persuasiveness > and probably individualizing them more than I assume we have > been doing (but I don't know, having never seen one). > > john > > > john > > > >