Hi,
If a reservation is needed in order to get the visa, some people book a refundable ticket for the visa application. Then, when/if they get the visa, they cancel the ticket and buy a new, cheaper non-refundable ticket.
(Of course, if the visa is accepted very close to the meeting, cheaper tickets may not be available anymore.)
There are also so called cancel-for-any-reason travel insurances. Not sure if they cover the whole cost of the ticket, but afaik at least a major part.
Regards,
Christer
-----Original Message-----
From: ietf [mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John C Klensin
Sent: 11 November 2014 11:46
To: Fernando Gont; Michael Richardson; 'IAOC'; 'IETF Discussion'
Subject: Re: on recurring favourite locations for November IETF meetings
--On Monday, November 10, 2014 17:57 -1000 Fernando Gont <fernando@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
...
Do airlines give full refunds if you don't get a VISA, I doubt it.
Not at all.
Not unless one buys fully refundable tickets, of course - see below.
...
IIRC, in most cases, what they require is an itinerary/reservation
rather than a ticket.
If a reservation is required, it can be almost equivalent to requiring a ticket, since many airlines won't hold a reservation for a cheap/ refundable ticket for very long without buying the ticket. "Not very long" can be as short as hours. Sometimes, one can buy a reservation hold for a longer period (72 hours, a week, ...) but that price, while much lower that than of a ticket, is typically non-refundable if one does not end up buying the ticket (and sometimes even if one does).
The problem here is that, as you note, you have two options:
1) Buy the ticket prior to getting the visa -- with the risk of not
getting it in time and hence wasting the ticket/money, or,
2) Wait till you get the visa before buying the ticket -- at which
point the ticket prices can be insane.
(3) Buy a fully-refundable ticket, whose advance-purchase price may or may not be significantly lower than late purchase, "Insane" prices but will certainly be a lot more than the non-refundable ones you refer to in (1).
All the above sad, I should say that, as far as
central/south-americans are concerned, e.g. Europe tends to be way
more friendly than North America: I can travel anywhere in Europe
(except Russia, I think) without a visa... but need a visa for US and
Canada.
Unfortunately, generalizing from any given country or regional experience is not helpful. As an example, a few central/south american countries reciprocate US and/or Canada visa requirements and procedures, not only requiring visas, but pulling the same "we will not formally turn you down, but may keep your application in a 'processing' state until the time of the meeting or other event, or at least the plausible airfare
window, has passed". I speak from experience, having had
Brazilian and Chinese visa applications timed out despite allowing lots of application time.
Also note that there are country pairs in which the destination country may be very relaxed about tourist visas (or waivers for
tourists) but may require formal visas for business or meeting attendance. A subset of them do make an effort to keep track and react very harshly to someone entering as a tourist and then doing business/ professional stuff. One thing I think no one wants is to have to answer a future "have you ever been deported from a country or denied entry because of visa or immigration violations" question with "yes".
Generalizations are _very_ risky.
Michael's conclusions are, IMO, the correct ones. I would restate them as:
(1) Do not experiment with November meetings. Pick places where we at least know what we are getting into.
(2) Do not pick locations that are known for being tourist destinations -- they can make consular officials nervous in ways that locations where no sane person would go except on business do not... and nervousness often results in visa delays.
(3) Set things up so that people have _lots_ of time for dealing with the slowest and more conservative of processes. That probably includes not only getting our invitation letters out early, but having experts design them for maximum persuasiveness and probably individualizing them more than I assume we have been doing (but I don't know, having never seen one).
john
john