On 11/10/2014 11:46 PM, John C Klensin wrote: >> IIRC, in most cases, what they require is an >> itinerary/reservation rather than a ticket. > > If a reservation is required, it can be almost equivalent to > requiring a ticket, since many airlines won't hold a reservation > for a cheap/ refundable ticket for very long without buying the > ticket. Agree. My point was that, strictly speaking, you do not need to buy a ticket to apply for the visa. >> All the above sad, I should say that, as far as >> central/south-americans are concerned, e.g. Europe tends to be >> way more friendly than North America: I can travel anywhere in >> Europe (except Russia, I think) without a visa... but need a >> visa for US and Canada. > > Unfortunately, generalizing from any given country or regional > experience is not helpful. As an example, a few central/south > american countries reciprocate US and/or Canada visa > requirements and procedures, not only requiring visas, but > pulling the same "we will not formally turn you down, but may > keep your application in a 'processing' state until the time of > the meeting or other event, or at least the plausible airfare > window, has passed". I speak from experience, having had > Brazilian and Chinese visa applications timed out despite > allowing lots of application time. I'm aware about the "reciprocity" thing (for instance, Argentina charges a reciprocity fee to australians, canadians, and usa-ians). But what I meant is that there are places that are known to be more painful to travel to than others. And that of "Europe is generally eaiser to travel to (for central/shouth-americans) than USA or Canada", is still true. IIRC, citizens from any south american country are required a visa for US and canada, while quite a few of us (south/central american countries) can travel to europe without any visa. > Also note that there are country pairs in which the destination > country may be very relaxed about tourist visas (or waivers for > tourists) but may require formal visas for business or meeting > attendance. Agreed. An example is India: travel visas are easy (and free!). business visas are painful (and cost money!). > Michael's conclusions are, IMO, the correct ones. I would > restate them as: > > (1) Do not experiment with November meetings. Pick places where > we at least know what we are getting into. Sorry, I missed the discussion: what's so special about November? Thanks, -- Fernando Gont e-mail: fernando@xxxxxxxxxxx || fgont@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1