At 11:45 PM 11/1/2012, Russ Housley wrote: >Mike: > >As Joel already said, the recall process is not dependent on the wishes of the IAOC. Yup. But I'd say their wishes would have a great deal of influence on whether or not this would go forward. And I'd still like to get at least some indication that this is their desired outcome at this point. I think, if nothing else, this needs to be part of whatever record considered by a recall committee. If I heard that only 1 or 2 members were indicating support for removal, I probably would withdraw my name from the petition signature. >Further, please note that IAB, IESG, and IAOC members cannot be recall petition signers. RFC 3777 says: > > 1. At any time, at least 20 members of the IETF community, who are > qualified to be voting members of a nominating committee, may > request by signed petition (email is acceptable) to the Internet > Society President the recall of any sitting IAB or IESG member. > >According to RFC 3777, sitting members of the IESG and IAB are not qualified to be voting members of NomCom. And, there is a long-standing tradition that IAOC members will not serve on NomCom. There is also an I-D that just finished IETF Last Call to formally exclude IAOC members from serving on NomCom. Fair enough, I'd forgotten that little fillip in the rules. I think you've also just convinced me that there's a need for an Expulsion option in 3777bis. This effort wasn't triggered by a desire of the IETF community to remove Marshall - we had no idea there was a problem (and some cases didn't agree that Marshall's absence was the greatest problem put forth). This was triggered by the members of the IAOC. To me it seems logical that a body should be able to initiate removal of its own members for whatever reasons it deems appropriate, but with a pretty high bar to completion. So for expulsion - I would propose that 2/3 of the remaining members concur to initiate the process. And that we select one of two options for confirmation: 3777 recall committee or 2/3 of the confirming body to confirm the removal. I would also proposed to prohibit more than one expulsion attempt for a member within a 6/9/12 month period. One possible future optimization for selecting the recall committee might be to choose members from the remaining list from the most recent nomcom selection using the same random selection process and same constraints on number members from the same organization/company. Also, stick the current nomcom "PAST chair" as the recall chair. Mike >Russ > > >On Nov 1, 2012, at 10:22 PM, Michael StJohns wrote: >> At 06:01 PM 11/1/2012, Bob Hinden wrote: >>> While the IAOC has not discussed this formally, I agree with you. The situation did change when we were able to talk with Marshall. >> >> I assume at this point the IAOC would like to pursue the recall option? If not, please be very clear about it to the list as I haven't actually seen a request from the IAOC for that process to proceed as far as I can tell. >> >> If you'd rather just wait from him to resign, if in fact he does, then please indicate that. I believe neither you nor Dave Crocker nor Scott Bradner (the only IOAC members that I think have commented on this issue on list so far) have actually specifically asked for or signed the recall on the list. >> >> Mike