John C Klensin wrote: > > I will accept your interpretation as stated but, if that > interpretation is correct, I believe the IETF should not meet > there while those provisions are in effect unless at least one > of the following conditions arises: The overview that Michael StJohns (thanks!) pointed to on wikimedia seems to be a rough approximation of the situation. The situation described for France (location of the last IETF Meeting) matches the real/effective Situation much better than the brief citation of §22 KunstUrhG did for Germany. > > (i) the IETF can reasonably require that people give permission > --irrevocable for the length of time they are at the meeting -- > as needed to permit the IETF to do things that are considered > convenient of necessary. That would be the end of "openness" in the IETF. Why would you want to "punish" folks who come to IETF meetings and pay the meeting fee, but primarily sit in the back of the room compared to IETF participants that listen to the audio streams (or its archives) or folks that have only subscribed to IETF mailing list or browse the archives. Do you want to require folks to first send photographs of themselves before they can listen to IETF Meeting audio streams, subscribe to IETF mailing lists, or browser the archives? > > That is still voluntary in the sense > that attending the meeting is voluntary and still revocable by > leaving the meeting and not coming back-- one can just decide > that, if one doesn't want to volunteer to permit one's picture > to be taken, one can't attend the meeting. > > If you are saying that it is illegal to impose a condition that > binds the two together, that is fine: unless the other condition > applies, we shouldn't be meeting in Germany. Yup, that is not voluntary, that meets the definition of compulsory. For the IETF as an organization, the EU data protection directive applies, so the situation will be similar _all_over_Europe_. > > I presume, by asserting > that such a binding is not permitted, you are also asserting that > corporate ID badges with pictures on them have disappeared from > Germany or are discretionary on a per-employee basis because a > corporate requirement that, in order to remain employed, one > must wear such a badge wouldn't be voluntary either. You're confusing things. It will be OK to have a picture on the ID badge that the employee is _carrying_. After all that is a low-resolution 1x1.5" 2-D picture. There is a high-res 3-D picture of your face attached to the upper end of the body from which the ID badge is supposed to be dangling, so that faximile on the badge is not really encroaching on your privacy, is it? But the employer is not allowed to retain copies of the photo that was imprinted on the badge beyond production of the badge itself, and neither of duplicate/backup badges with your picture on it _without_ voluntary consent. -Martin