On Nov 2, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Randy Bush wrote: >> Meanwhile, I haven't heard anyone raise complaints about WebEx > > then you ignored my earlier mail. Actually didn't mean to - my mail app sorts emails into threads (Mac Lion mail.app), and for some reason this one is a separate thread from the one you sent that comment in, so I didn't see your other email until after I sent this one. > i am sure everybody means well here. the issue is not that, whether > they are a social service, a vendor, or an evil router maker. the issue > is simply whether the ietf should present users with opportunities for > the very kinds of practices into which we claim to put much effort to > avoid. I think it's kind of a gray area to say "the IETF presents the user with it". Obviously the email and IETF website give the Meetecho and WebEx links, so in that sense the IETF does. But the IETF site also has a link to a list of XMPP clients on xmpp.org, yet we don't control that list nor know what the code in those clients does; nor does the IETF support people connecting directly to the IETF XMPP servers using IETF accounts - you have to use another XMPP provider. So the analogous model for WebEx/Meetecho would be for the IETF to have a link to a third party page that then provided a link to WebEx/Meetecho, which just seems kinda silly. Or another analogous model would be for the IETF to provide the SIP/RTSP server and content/source-feed, which we haven't. The good news is the IETF RTCWEB WG and W3C WBERTC WG are working feverishly to get WebRTC defined so that Meetecho (or the IETF) can do it without needing to use plugins/apps. When that happens I think we should consider having the IETF host this stuff natively, like it does jabber/XMPP. I.e., eat our own dogfood. :) -hadriel _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf