--On Saturday, April 16, 2011 07:51 -0700 Lucy Lynch <llynch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> The implication is that the people sitting in the positions >> of IAB Chair and IETF Chair are essential to the good >> operation of the IAOC/Trust. Someone else from their groups >> or even someone else that they appoint from outside cannot >> perform the task of IAOC/Trust member adequately. > > I think this is the wrong question. I don't think this is > about the > people who sit on the IAOC or the Trust, it is about the > roles. Their > participation is part of the chain of accountability to the > community. > The IAOC was crafted to include both the IAB and IETF Chairs > as well > as the ISOC CEO in their respective roles and not as Fred, > Harold, and > Lynn (as members of the IETF community). > >> Why? >> >> What are the specific contributions (insights and skills) >> that these roles regularly perform, in the conduct of the >> IAOC/Trust that cannot be performed adequately by others? > > see above. > > One more point here: as a former Chair of the IAOC (IAB > appointed > member from the community) I'm sympathetic the the overload > arguments > but I'll note that absent the IAB/IETF chairs the work of the > IAOC > chair and the weight put on that role may increase in > unexpected ways. > > I agree with many of the points that Bob, Brian, Leslie, and > Jari > have made in earlier posts and think that we need to take a > broader > view of the problems we're trying to solve here. Role overload > is > an on-going problem but I'm not sure we solve this by moving > the > administrative accountability we gained through BCP 101 to > additional volunteers. At the risk of agreeing violently with Dave, I think the series of comments above, and referenced above, are missing something. None of this familiy of "delegation" or "someone else" proposals requires that the IAB or IESG Chairs not serve on the IAOC. If they think that is sensible and they have the time, they are free to do that. We might even strongly encourage it. However, if those people conclude that limited available time is better spent in other ways or that, if they take the IAOC position, they would not be able to devote adequate attention to it, aren't we better off giving them the flexibility and discretion to make that decision? Similarly, if someone tells the appointing body "I have the time and resources to take on the IAB Chair or IETF Chair position but only if that position does not include the responsibility of sitting on the IAOC" isn't it better to give those bodies the option of considering that person rather than limiting the choices to those who can sign up for all of the job? At least from my perspective, broadening the flexibility available to already-appointed IAB and IETF Chairs and to the bodies that appoint them is the real issue here. _Requiring_ that they serve on the IAOC does not create more time or resources, it just limits the range of people who can take those positions or, more likely, raises the odds of getting someone onto the IAOC who won't be able to pay full (or even adequate) attention. So. in addition to the questions Dave posed, the question I would address to you and Bob is whether, given a hypothetical choice of someone sitting on the IAOC ex-officio but not being able to really pay attention because he or she concludes that there are more pressing priorities and having someone representing the IAB or IESG who really can pay attention, which one you would pick. In the worst case, if you prefer to have the Chairs nominally present but not paying complete attention, then keep insisting that they are the only ones who can possibly occupy the IAOC slot. As part of that, figure out how you are going to convince the Nomcom and the IAB that selecting people for the Chair roles should have "will give IAOC first priority regardless of their judgment about the importance of other aspects of their roles" as an absolute criterion and/or how you are going to convince the community to recall anyone in the Chair roles who does not give the IAOC that priority. best, john _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf