Re: Request for community guidance on issue concerning a future meeting of the IETF

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On Sep 20, 2009, at 12:41 PM, Ole Jacobsen wrote:


Please try to keep in mind that (various organizations in) China has
been wanting to host an IETF meeting since 1997. One organization has
finally been given government approval to do so. This is a Big Deal
for them. Do you really think the Chinese government is looking for
an excuse to make an example of a bunch of geeks meeting in a hotel
and embarrass the local host in the process? I don't think so.



No, the PRC government at the top level is not trying to make an example of the IETF. They're probably trying very hard to get the IETF to engage with them.

But there a re a lot of people in the world who will be looking for ways to make the PRC government over-react against the IETF, resulting in an international incident that is embarrassing or otherwise damaging to the PRC. IETF is a much more visible target than other SDOs that might meet in China (including 3GPP2 and OMA that I have had experience with). Further, it might be easier to trigger a governmental reaction against IETF than those other bodies due to the politically sensitive nature of some of our work. After all, we're the people who made things happen so that Taiwan would have its own country code in the DNS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_code_top-level_domain

And there are "politcal immune cells" that operate at a level below that of the top-level government people that made the decision to allow the IETF. It's hard to say what sort of actions might cause them to activate against us or our people.

Another way to ask this question: Are our members who are Falun Gong practitioners going to be persecuted for their beliefs while attending IETF? Are our members who are active in Tibetan or Taiwanese independence movements going to be quietly picked up off the street outside our venue? Are our members who run large-scale porn web sites going to be hassled? Will the IETF be held financially liable for their legal defense? If so, would it not behoove said movements to orchestrate a few arrests in order to gain international attention and force the IETF to financial and politically engage on behalf of the movements?

This seems like a golden opportunity for publicity, and I'd bet every dissident with half a clue is currently thinking very hard about how to maximize the opportunity. If they can make it happen by leaking something into the ear of a suspected snitch, they will. If they can make it happen by setting up a WG conversation around a risky topic, they will. If they can make it happen by having someone pretending to be a senior party member threaten the hotel manager, causing the hotel manager to close a working group meeting, they will. If they can make it happen by triggering the political immune system (which they understand far better than we do) in any way, they will.

Do we have a large political bullseye painted on our foreheads? Yes, we do. Should we let that stop us from meeting in China? That's the open question. There are risks, we need to understand those risks, and then we can decide whether or not we want to go down that path.

We should perhaps note that at least one SIP interoperability event (SIPit 21) was held in China. The hospitality was reported as excellent, no real political problems were reported, and the event was generally considered quite successful. I seem to recall that they did have an issue with network connectivity. However, this is a very small group, and much less attractive as a political target than a meeting of the full IETF would be.


--
Dean Willis

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